Is a tension workout better than a depletion on fri (from lyles journal)

[the_hall]

I read this in lyle's journal, what he is saying seems to make sense to me. Anyone know what his current thoughts on this idea are?

Dan suggests the following schedule to optimize results from Bodyopus:
Mon: high tension workout for half of the body
Tuesday: high tension workout for other half of the body
The purpose of these two workouts is to instill an anabolic response
to prevent muscle loss while dieting. I'll come back to this.
Wed/Thu: aerobics optional to burn ketone calories
Fri: high rep, 2 hour depletion workout.
The purpose of this workout is to deplete muscle glycogen so that
total supercompensation can occur.

What I'm thinking is this: What if you switched around the workout schedule
to something like this:
Mon: either full body 2 hour depletion workout or split body into Mon and Tue.
Tue: aerobics or other half of body depletion workout. Perhaps followed by
interval training (which, as I mentioned in the Week 4 update) would serve
to clear out what little glycogen (especially liver glycogen) might be left
and help you get into ketosis faster.
Wed: aerobics
Thu or Thu/Fri: do high tension workout (either full body on Friday or
split routine on Thu and Fri).
Sat/Sun: no training

Alternately, you could just ditch the damn depletion workout and train
normally on some type of split routine. I'd put any weak bodyparts
on Monday and Tuesday to take advantage of whatever strength increases
you get from the carb loading. Or perhaps use a split like:

Mon: legs, back, bis: 1-2 exercises per bodypart or POF or something
Tue: chest, delts, tris: 1-2 exercises per bodypart or POF or something
Fri: whole body: 1 exercise per bodypart for 2-3 sets to failure.

This would do double duty. You can take advantage of the carbo loading
on Mon and Tue and then get all muscles trained on Friday before the carb
up to take advantage of the anabolic rush. In fact, that's what I'm going to
do this week.

Here's the rationale: BO is meant to be a fat loss diet and you don't get into
major fat burning until you hit ketosis. Which can't occur until you drop blood
glucose below 50 and empty out liver glycogen (muscle glycogen doesn't really
matter as far as ketosis is concerned). Doing the depletion workout first
in the week would presumably drop glycogen and blood glucose levels faster
than a normal high tension workout. Interval training would accomplish
the same thing. But, Dan says that high intensity aerobics burn muscle.
What about sprinters? Or Shawn Phillips for that matter (see MM2000
article by Shawn on High Intensity Interval Training for fat loss several
months back). Yes, long duration, high intensity activity will probably
cause a loss of muscle but intervals don't *seem* to cause that at least
not done in any reasonable amount. Would three days of interval training
while in ketosis hasten fat loss? Maybe, but it would suck big time
wind to do.

Also, doing the high tension workouts on Thu/Fri or whole body on Friday
means that, in the first 30 hours post workout, you would be able to take
advantage of the insulin and GH pulse that you get while recarbing.

Possible drawbacks to the Lyle method:
1. Can't take advantage of the super-glycogenated muscles on Mon and Tue
which (supposedly) make you stronger. Personally, I haven't noticed a
monster difference as it is. A buddy of mine did feel extrememly strong
following recarb this last week but we can't be sure if was because:
a. the carbing worked really well for him.
b. he loaded creatine that weekend during recarb.
c. he took more ephedrine than usual.

I put my money on 'b' and 'c'.

2. Soreness from high tension workout may impair carbing. But, question:
why wouldn't this apply to normal training. I mean, on a high carb
diet, there's no problem getting carbs into the muscles.

Here's what I think the problem is: I think that Dan designed BO for the
competitive bodybuilder who's getting ready for a contest. In this case,
doing the high rep depletion workout prior to recarbing makes perfect
sense. That allows all carbs to go to refilling the muscles without
being drawn away for repairing the damaged muscle fibers. But, what
about those of us simply using BO to lose fat and maintain or even gain
a bit of muscle at the same time? In this case, using the depletion
workout to get into ketosis more quickly *should* allow you to get into
fat burning more quickly. And, since getting every last drop of carbs
into the muscle isn't as critical (since we're not preparing for a contest),
doing your high tension workout immediately prior to the recarb might
create more of an anabolic response than doing it when carbs are lower
(which also allows cortisol to be higher as carbs lower cortisol
levels) early in the week.

A lot of this came out of the differences between Pasquale's Anabolic
Diet (AD) and Dan's Bodyopus (BO) which I'll be summarizing and getting
into in the prelude to the week 6 update. The AD seems geared towards
gaining mass with minimal fat gain which is why calories are not restricted.
For that goal, training more 'normally' might be more beneficial. BO seems
geared towards maximizing fat loss while minimizing muscle loss
which is why it's set up the way it is (calories at maintenance or below).

Anyone out there have any comments on this idea? Dan?

[Maki Riddington]

I would stick to the depletion workout. As mentioned, POF may induce some high level of soreness which in turn can impair gylcogen uptake into the muscles. If the point of the carb up is load as much carbs and as efficiently into the muscles as possible then it seem to be counter productive to induce soreness post carb up.

Just my thoughts.

[Jane]

I was brainstorming something similar to that a couple of weeks ago, actually, and I think that method makes more sense. The only inconvinience I see is that there is more work done during ketosis, and I really hate keto workouts.
I say give it a try, it can't hurt.