Training partner's opener - 880 lbs

[ct67_72]

I think the squat looked good, but as others have said, its nearly impossible to tell from that angle.
I can also appreciate your feelings on the rules of the squat in multi-ply gear, but in that thinking when would it end? More aggresive gear and now it gets higher.
I am a geared lifter but a firm believer that a true squat is one that the hip breaks parallel with the knee. If the equipment wont allow it, it needs to be different.
If benching gets too difficult to touch do we allow a certain distance from the chest to consider it good? do we start calling bench presses when the elbow breaks parralel with the shoulder?
The bottom line is that the rules are the rules. If they say that you must break parralel for the lift to be considered good, than you must do exactly that. You cant be mad at the rules that you agreed to entering a meet.
On a side note, he smashed that weight!

[chris mason]

I agree this is right at parallel (the crease of the hip is right in line with the top of the knee by the line you drew). I believe you drew the line to go through the crease of the hip (it's hard to tell with the black). It is right at the edge of where I would white light it both equipped and raw (benefit of the doubt goes to the lifter in calls that are very close, as to break parallel can be by a millimeter or less, so in essence at and breaking parallel are just about the same and should go to the lifter). Why should raw have to be lower than this? That's the part I don't understand of what you are saying.

I'm not saying raw should, but that has been the rule and I am not asking for a change in the raw or single ply rules, I am asking for recognition that the current and most extreme version of multi-ply is really a different form of competition and should be addressed as such.

[chris mason]

I think the squat looked good, but as others have said, its nearly impossible to tell from that angle.
I can also appreciate your feelings on the rules of the squat in multi-ply gear, but in that thinking when would it end? More aggresive gear and now it gets higher.
I am a geared lifter but a firm believer that a true squat is one that the hip breaks parallel with the knee. If the equipment wont allow it, it needs to be different.
If benching gets too difficult to touch do we allow a certain distance from the chest to consider it good? do we start calling bench presses when the elbow breaks parralel with the shoulder?
The bottom line is that the rules are the rules. If they say that you must break parralel for the lift to be considered good, than you must do exactly that. You cant be mad at the rules that you agreed to entering a meet.
On a side note, he smashed that weight!

I am addressing a current concern. If the equipment got more extreme to the point you are referencing than further consideration would have to take place.

The current concern is that the most extreme multi-ply gear pretty much precludes the current squat depth rule from being viable. It makes no sense not to address it. You can either:

a) Ban said equipment.
b) Make the rules such that lifters can actually comply with them.

[chris mason]

And what none of you rule sticklers realize is that the current state of meets is a farce. What is happening is at most meets the squat depth rule is NOT being enforced and there is an unwritten understanding. That is silly. Address the problem and move on.

[April Mathis]

I understand your point of view. It makes sense, but I just disagree. The squats you posted looked ok to me based on the current rules, or at least very close. Making the lifter have to hit parallel in a meet should limit how ridiculous the gear can be. The judges just have to stick to it. I understand something close going to a lifter, but I do not understand that some lifts can be given 3 whites and be 6 inches above parallel and count for world records. If you can't be getting lower than that with 1000lbs.+, then the gear is just way too tight. I know quite a few people that can get to parallel with tighter gear (they need help getting on briefs and a suit I would say is tighter gear) with 315-500 on the bar, yet squat a lot more than that. It is tight enough to squat a couple hundred pounds more than raw, but not ridiculous. I really don't think it's any different than the argument Vincent made recently about bench shirts being so ridiculous at bigger meets that 80% of the lifters bomb trying huge numbers and still not touching. But no one is having a discussion that touching should be replaced by a 2-board instead in a meet.

[chris mason]

April, you make a good point with the bench shirts, but it is different. The shirts are much more versatile and adjustable (i.e. they are wearing a shirt which may be several sizes too small and or they have pulled the collar down such that the shirt locks them up too high). When someone can't touch a weight that is more or less by choice/design. I don't think the same is true with a Leviathan type suit and Predator briefs. If you have on the right size suite and briefs and the straps up it would be the very rare individual indeed who could squat to where the crease of their hip is below the top of their knee, especially if they squat with a wide stance. There is some room for adjustment with the straps, but you really can't go several sizes too small because of the design of the suits (with respect to getting them on and off).

[JK1]

April, you make a good point with the bench shirts, but it is different. The shirts are much more versatile and adjustable (i.e. they are wearing a shirt which may be several sizes too small and or they have pulled the collar down such that the shirt locks them up too high). When someone can't touch a weight that is more or less by choice/design. I don't think the same is true with a Leviathan type suit and Predator briefs. If you have on the right size suite and briefs and the straps up it would be the very rare individual indeed who could squat to where the crease of their hip is below the top of their knee, especially if they squat with a wide stance. There is some room for adjustment with the straps, but you really can't go several sizes too small because of the design of the suits (with respect to getting them on and off).

Chris, please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the real issue the appearance given from the wide stance vs a narrow stance and the inability of certian individuals to adjust for that change in appearance--lets face it a narrow stance with the leg perpendicular to the judge will look different than a wide stance with the legs turned out and the toes facing the judge.. the hip crease will appear different anyway you look at it. At the same time the squat will look different from the front too. it seems some just can't or won't understand that.

[April Mathis]

Chris, please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the real issue the appearance given from the wide stance vs a narrow stance and the inability of certian individuals to adjust for that change in appearance--lets face it a narrow stance with the leg perpendicular to the judge will look different than a wide stance with the legs turned out and the toes facing the judge.. the hip crease will appear different anyway you look at it. At the same time the squat will look different from the front too. it seems some just can't or won't understand that.

This part is true Jack. Even with a wider stance, you should still be able to tell depth the same from the side. From the front it will look higher usually. Most of the meets I have been to and lifters I've been around compete with gear so I've been accustomed to what that looks like when judging from the side. If anything, a lot of lifters lift wider in gear not just for the suit to provide more support, but also to lessen the range of motion and hit parallel faster than with a closer stance. If the judges are judging the wider stance lifters differently and want them to have to go much lower, then that would be a problem. I have actually never seen this happen at a meet, as usually the judging is more lax towards the geared lifters if it is a meet with both raw and gear or different amounts of gear.

I also believe there is a serious problem with a lot of lifters now purposely training high all of the time and then expect to get down once they get to a meet and wonder why they can't. I know of many people and even have several friends that do this even and have talked with them that it a bad idea if they don't at least practice to hit depth some of the time in the gym. I know a bunch of people putting on 2 or 3 pairs of multi ply briefs and then a suit on top and wonder why they can never hit depth. I'm not saying from experience, because I never used a canvas suit myself as of yet. But it seems to me that more people training these ways will also lead to higher squats or lifters saying they just can't get down lower.

And Chris I know at least one person I used to train with wore a canvas suit and would take at least 30-45 minutes and at least 2 or 3 people helping to get it off every time. He actually somehow squatted to parallel with that also.

[chris mason]

Chris, please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the real issue the appearance given from the wide stance vs a narrow stance and the inability of certian individuals to adjust for that change in appearance--lets face it a narrow stance with the leg perpendicular to the judge will look different than a wide stance with the legs turned out and the toes facing the judge.. the hip crease will appear different anyway you look at it. At the same time the squat will look different from the front too. it seems some just can't or won't understand that.

Well, I'm not sure about that. A narrower stance does make squatting deeper easier although I am not sure how much of a difference it would make in a Leviathan suit and Predator briefs.

[chris mason]

This part is true Jack. Even with a wider stance, you should still be able to tell depth the same from the side. From the front it will look higher usually. Most of the meets I have been to and lifters I've been around compete with gear so I've been accustomed to what that looks like when judging from the side. If anything, a lot of lifters lift wider in gear not just for the suit to provide more support, but also to lessen the range of motion and hit parallel faster than with a closer stance. If the judges are judging the wider stance lifters differently and want them to have to go much lower, then that would be a problem. I have actually never seen this happen at a meet, as usually the judging is more lax towards the geared lifters if it is a meet with both raw and gear or different amounts of gear.

I also believe there is a serious problem with a lot of lifters now purposely training high all of the time and then expect to get down once they get to a meet and wonder why they can't. I know of many people and even have several friends that do this even and have talked with them that it a bad idea if they don't at least practice to hit depth some of the time in the gym. I know a bunch of people putting on 2 or 3 pairs of multi ply briefs and then a suit on top and wonder why they can never hit depth. I'm not saying from experience, because I never used a canvas suit myself as of yet. But it seems to me that more people training these ways will also lead to higher squats or lifters saying they just can't get down lower.

And Chris I know at least one person I used to train with wore a canvas suit and would take at least 30-45 minutes and at least 2 or 3 people helping to get it off every time. He actually somehow squatted to parallel with that also.

Parallel is not legal depth.

Crease of the hip below the top of the knee is significantly below parallel.

[Brian Hopper]

I'm not sure how different they are, but this was done in Ginny's canvas suit and he hits good depth.

Video

[chris mason]

I think there is a BIG difference because Gene R told me he wore one in that video of him getting below parallel with 1k lbs that someone posted.

[JK1]

I think there is a BIG difference because Gene R told me he wore one in that video of him getting below parallel with 1k lbs that someone posted.

Irrespective of the suit worn, based on how the butt material was poking out on that suit (look at the peak of material when he turns around), I'd actually say it looks like it is pretty loose in the hips for a canvas suit. That obviously will allow him to get deeper because of tension of material across the glutes.

[JK1]

I also believe there is a serious problem with a lot of lifters now purposely training high all of the time and then expect to get down once they get to a meet and wonder why they can't. I know of many people and even have several friends that do this even and have talked with them that it a bad idea if they don't at least practice to hit depth some of the time in the gym. I know a bunch of people putting on 2 or 3 pairs of multi ply briefs and then a suit on top and wonder why they can never hit depth. I'm not saying from experience, because I never used a canvas suit myself as of yet. But it seems to me that more people training these ways will also lead to higher squats or lifters saying they just can't get down lower.

And Chris I know at least one person I used to train with wore a canvas suit and would take at least 30-45 minutes and at least 2 or 3 people helping to get it off every time. He actually somehow squatted to parallel with that also.

I personally work where the weak point is. This may mean working a high box or a low box, it depends on where I'm weakest. Now typically speaking, I always squat to a low box on DE days. Why? So my hips don't get so tight I'm fighting getting down in equipment.

This is just like not touching in a bench shirt. I fail to understand how people can go through weeks of training, never touch weight and then expect to magically touch the day of the meet. That is a bomb just waiting to happen.