A quick question about protein

[Big Dan]

Hi all,

After posting my food intake in another sub-forum, I was advised to try and get some more protein in my diet, substituting some of the carbs i currently eat.

Sometimes I even just miss breakfast because i'm in a rush, so I was hoping that protein shakes might be right for me.

All my stats/info including my food log is in this thread - http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...54#post2557954

So, for breakfast I try and eat either 2 or 3 toast, or 1 or 2 bagels, or a bowl of branflakes.

I never really have time for cereal, so i usually have toast or bagels. But often I'll be running out the door and not even have time for that, so I end up grabbing a small yoghurt and taking it to work to eat at my desk.

Anyway, to the point, I feel that I need more protein in my diet and I was hoping that protein shakes might be my solution - to have one a day at breakfast time, with toast or a bagel but if i'm in a rush, just on its own.


Would this be a good plan? and if so, what kind of powder should I buy?

Thanks,
Big Dan

[JacobH]

Yes. Nitrean is the best protein you can buy. But really even wal-mart protein is fine. Also, don't stress out about when you are getting it. If you can have a shake at breakfast, a shake post workout and a shake at bedtime. Great. If you don't have time at breakfast, that's fine. Try and start tracking your protein intake daily, as long as you meet your goal at the end of the day it's all the same. Also- for your goal, you have a huge amount of mass already, not really lean mass, but if I were in your position I would be shooting for about 300 grams per day.

edit- Oh yes and I should tell you that getting it from whole foods is always better. But shakes are just so convenient.

[Big Dan]

edit- Oh yes and I should tell you that getting it from whole foods is always better. But shakes are just so convenient.

Yeah. I was told that, and have tried to be eating chicken breast pretty much every day (most convenient, tuna is disgusting to me unless its COVERED in mayo which is not good) - but as you say, shakes are much more convenient.

Cheers mate!

[krazylarry]

Toast, bagels and bran flakes are all shit. Don't eat them. Have protein shake or eggs.

[K-R-M]

Toast, bagels and bran flakes are all shit. Don't eat them. Have protein shake or eggs.

Nothing wrong with any of these foods.

[Big Dan]

Nothing wrong with any of these foods.

Agreed. I don't know where krazy larry seems to be getting his information. Bran flakes and bagels are some of the best foods you can have in the morning. Its just that most of us on this site need to pump the protein in.

[krazylarry]

Well a bagel has a GI of 72 almost the exactly the same as a doughnut. Where as the doughnut has 270 cals and the bagel has 320 cals. So the bagel is made of the same stuff as the doughnut and has more cals. Now would any one on this planet think that a doughnut is "good healthy" food? No. So why would you think that a bagel is healthy, when in fact when you look at the numbers it actually worse for you....

Its amazing what you would learn just from looking up nutrition facts.

http://www.dunkindonuts.com/content/...innamon+Raisin

[krazylarry]

Watch, you may learn something.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/196879/fat-head

[Behemoth]

Well a bagel has a GI of 72 almost the exactly the same as a doughnut. Where as the doughnut has 270 cals and the bagel has 320 cals. So the bagel is made of the same stuff as the doughnut and has more cals. Now would any one on this planet think that a doughnut is "good healthy" food? No. So why would you think that a bagel is healthy, when in fact when you look at the numbers it actually worse for you....

Its amazing what you would learn just from looking up nutrition facts.

http://www.dunkindonuts.com/content/...innamon+Raisin

Primarily because they're deep fried and typically topped with sugary glazes or fillings. To my knowledge bagels aren't...

If it fits his macros, there's not a damn thing wrong with him eating a bagel unless he's just trying to feel hardcore and be a bro who eats nothing but sweet potatoes and brown rice.

[K-R-M]

Well a bagel has a GI of 72 almost the exactly the same as a doughnut. Where as the doughnut has 270 cals and the bagel has 320 cals. So the bagel is made of the same stuff as the doughnut and has more cals. Now would any one on this planet think that a doughnut is "good healthy" food? No. So why would you think that a bagel is healthy, when in fact when you look at the numbers it actually worse for you....

Its amazing what you would learn just from looking up nutrition facts.

http://www.dunkindonuts.com/content/...innamon+Raisin

I wouldn't put too much stock on the GI value (are you diabetic?) or what constitutes as "healthy". Anything that doesn't reduce your life expectancy or increases your risk of disease is healthy enough for anybody. There's nothing fundamentally unhealthy about 1 bagel, or even 2 as long as he's following his macros and eating his fats/veggies/protein. About fat-head, his no-bologna facts suck, I like a minimum of interpretation skills from my documentary directors.

[RichMcGuire]

Since the GI doesn't always match the II, I don't think id worry about it.. the biggest deal will be total calories and macro nutrient profiles at the end of the day.

[Big Dan]

Dude, you've posted the stats of a DUNKIN' DONUT bagel, not your standard bagel.


These are the bagels I eat;
http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk...York-Bagel.htm

[krazylarry]

Primarily because they're deep fried and typically topped with sugary glazes or fillings. To my knowledge bagels aren't...

If it fits his macros, there's not a damn thing wrong with him eating a bagel unless he's just trying to feel hardcore and be a bro who eats nothing but sweet potatoes and brown rice.

Topped with sugar and still less cals, so a doughnut would fit his macros even better than a bagel.
The human body needs EFA's and protein, not carbs. You can have them, but they are not needed.
You and I have had this talk before, I prescribe to the Selby Stanes view of low carb is the best way to drop fat.
Big dan has been eating what he thinks is healthy, as per FDA guide lines, low fat high starch and its clearly not working. So why not try something else, that has been shown to work for tons and tons of people? Low carb.

[K-R-M]

Topped with sugar and still less cals, so a doughnut would fit his macros even better than a bagel.
The human body needs EFA's and protein, not carbs. You can have them, but they are not needed.
You and I have had this talk before, I prescribe to the Selby Stanes view of low carb is the best way to drop fat.
Big dan has been eating what he thinks is healthy, as per FDA guide lines, low fat high starch and its clearly not working. So why not try something else, that has been shown to work for tons and tons of people? Low carb.

I think diets with carb have worked just as well, if not better because the restriction is easier to follow. I'd personally say that Shelby's views on low carb are the best way to drop fat, for you but I wouldn't make any generalizations any further than that. Eating carbs also doesn't disqualify from either getting EFAs or protein, I'll even add that our body is highly efficient at digesting carbs and even has a wealth of mechanisms for it, suggesting that carbs are indeed a usefull part of our diet.

[Behemoth]

Topped with sugar and still less cals, so a doughnut would fit his macros even better than a bagel.
The human body needs EFA's and protein, not carbs. You can have them, but they are not needed.
You and I have had this talk before, I prescribe to the Selby Stanes view of low carb is the best way to drop fat.
Big dan has been eating what he thinks is healthy, as per FDA guide lines, low fat high starch and its clearly not working. So why not try something else, that has been shown to work for tons and tons of people? Low carb.

At Big Dans level low carb or high carb is pretty much irrelevant. I agree carbs can play a very key role in getting ultra lean. But if Dan can adhere to his caloric intake and gets in the other adequate nutrition he needs then bagels (or even doughnuts) are perfectly fine for his losing weight on.

[krazylarry]

At Big Dans level low carb or high carb is pretty much irrelevant. I agree carbs can play a very key role in getting ultra lean. But if Dan can adhere to his caloric intake and gets in the other adequate nutrition he needs then bagels (or even doughnuts) are perfectly fine for his losing weight on.

Yes "adhere to his caloric intake and gets in the other adequate nutrition" is the most important thing. But from my reading low carb is good for over weight people, where as low carb does not really cause a big difference in normal weight training people, because it helps correct the hormonal problems many heavy people have. I.E. high blood sugar and insulin production.

[Big Dan]

You are forgetting Larry, that you posted statistics to a DUNKIN' DONUTS bagel, which are clearly cooked differently, in a fairly bad way. These are the bagels I eat;
http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk...York-Bagel.htm

Also, bagels are FAR more filling than donuts, hence I can get by on one bagel for a full morning, rather than probably wanting/needing at least 2 or 3 donuts.

[Behemoth]

Yes "adhere to his caloric intake and gets in the other adequate nutrition" is the most important thing. But from my reading low carb is good for over weight people, where as low carb does not really cause a big difference in normal weight training people, because it helps correct the hormonal problems many heavy people have. I.E. high blood sugar and insulin production.

Chicken breast, brown rice, tuna, fish oil, shakes, steak, and oatmeal is "better" than chicken breast, bagel, tuna, fish oil, shakes, doughnut yes. Is it tangible? No. If he wants to eat bagels that perfectly fine.

More important are the psychological benefits and drawbacks of limiting yourself to only the most hardcore foods or not. Most people do much better when they understand there can be a lot of flexibility in dieting. Those who don't and try and do things perfectly by the book usually end of fizzling out with it and ultimately never sustaining it.

[krazylarry]

Chicken breast, brown rice, tuna, fish oil, shakes, steak, and oatmeal is "better" than chicken breast, bagel, tuna, fish oil, shakes, doughnut yes. Is it tangible? No. If he wants to eat bagels that perfectly fine.

More important are the psychological benefits and drawbacks of limiting yourself to only the most hardcore foods or not. Most people do much better when they understand there can be a lot of flexibility in dieting. Those who don't and try and do things perfectly by the book usually end of fizzling out with it and ultimately never sustaining it.

I never said limit himself to hardcore food. I said replace a bagel with eggs or a shake, which by all accounts is a much better option. Of if he is going to cheat, I consider a bagel cheat food, cheat with a doughnut. It fits the same macros, same cals, IMO tastes a hell of a lot better, and more importantly when some eats a doughnut they know they are eating crap, unlike when eating a bagel when you think you are eating good, but its the same crap macros as a doughnut. So it has much great psychosocial reward.

If he really needs bagels, than he needs to adjust the rest of his diet around the bagel, because a bagel is not good eating. I had to adjust my diet to have pizza at least once a week, but I don't kid myself thinking "oh pizza is low in fat, so its healthy for."

[RichMcGuire]

Seriously, an argument about a bagel? I think ill write a diet book about the new super secret "low bagel diet" guaranteed to strip off lbs of fat in weeks!

[K-R-M]

I consider a bagel cheat food

Bagels aren't a cheat food. The very notion of a cheat food is debatable.

[chevelle2291]

I never said limit himself to hardcore food. I said replace a bagel with eggs or a shake, which by all accounts is a much better option. Of if he is going to cheat, I consider a bagel cheat food, cheat with a doughnut. It fits the same macros, same cals, IMO tastes a hell of a lot better, and more importantly when some eats a doughnut they know they are eating crap, unlike when eating a bagel when you think you are eating good, but its the same crap macros as a doughnut. So it has much great psychosocial reward.

If he really needs bagels, than he needs to adjust the rest of his diet around the bagel, because a bagel is not good eating. I had to adjust my diet to have pizza at least once a week, but I don't kid myself thinking "oh pizza is low in fat, so its healthy for."

Krazy, how "clean" is your diet? I'd imagine it must be very strict if you consider bagels a cheat food, no?

After years upon years of stagnation while adhering to a clean diet, I really think that "clean" eating is incredibly overrated. This is strictly from a muscle gain/fat loss perspective.

This time last year I cut on ample portions of mcdonalds, ice cream, shock tarts, etc. Healthy? No. Successful? Absolutely. From a pure composition standpoint, the source of the p/f/c just doesn't matter.

[Whoopipally]

This is now a bagel/spiderman thread.

All joking aside dan, the protein shake idea is good. Nitrean is great. Also regarding your whole morning 'rush': I find that having some greek yogurt with some type of nuts mixed in it does wonders.

[tommygunz90]

This is now a bagel/spiderman thread.

All joking aside dan, the protein shake idea is good. Nitrean is great. Also regarding your whole morning 'rush': I find that having some greek yogurt with some type of nuts mixed in it does wonders.

+1 on the greek yogurt! A guy from work had me try one of his about two years ago right before I got into lifting. Never really got into the macros until I started shopping for lifting and then I checked. Chobani 0% fat has 140 cals 14 grams of protein. Ill usually eat one with some oats or granola in it or 2 as is!

[krazylarry]

Krazy, how "clean" is your diet? I'd imagine it must be very strict if you consider bagels a cheat food, no?

After years upon years of stagnation while adhering to a clean diet, I really think that "clean" eating is incredibly overrated. This is strictly from a muscle gain/fat loss perspective.

This time last year I cut on ample portions of mcdonalds, ice cream, shock tarts, etc. Healthy? No. Successful? Absolutely. From a pure composition standpoint, the source of the p/f/c just doesn't matter.

Pretty clean, minus a protein bar everyday because I have neither time nor the stomach to eat real food going from my lifting gym to my MMA gym. And of course Firday when I eat pizza, lots and lots of pizza. Last summer when I looked my best it was low carb, but I was not training MMA nearly at intensely. So I could get away with low carb. Sparring on low carbs may be the worse experience of my training life, its the only time I ever quit. I was getting the brake beat off me by a guy who every other time we have sparred I was able to work what ever I wanted on him.

Referring to a bagel as a cheat food, a bagel is white flour, white flour is crap. I have never read anything from someone who's opinion I valued who said white flour was good.

Cutting is very person dependent. I know quite few guys who eat a crap diet, don't work out very hard and have full 6 packs. It's genetic. Now IMO people who are endomorphs need a lower carb diet to get lean because they don't have the proper insulin response and that's why they hold fat so well.