I Think My Workouts Are Too Long, Help Please.

[RhodeHouse]

You should stop posting on here and just do whatever you want. You clearly think you know what you're doing and when people who actually know what they're talking about tell you what you don't want to hear, you have something to say.

It's abundantly clear that you have no idea how to train, especially regarding throwing.

[Off Road]

Guys are going to believe what they want to believe and do what they want to do. They will find a way to convince themselves...
I personally think you are making things too complicated, I'd just focus on getting stronger. But I am not a thrower so what do I know?

[DravenCarey]

You should stop posting on here and just do whatever you want. You clearly think you know what you're doing and when people who actually know what they're talking about tell you what you don't want to hear, you have something to say.

It's abundantly clear that you have no idea how to train, especially regarding throwing.

Half of this is correct, and half isn't. You're right I dont have a damned clue on how to train effectively for throwing, that's why I'm here. You're wrong that I simple disregard what everyone says in favor of my own thoughts. My routine has changed DRASTICALLY from what it was, and certainly for the better. My posts in response to others like Chris aren't to tell them that I know everything (I surely don't) it's to clarify to them the questions in their post. I've been tracking this topic on 3 forums and taking advice from everyone who seems to have knowledge of lifting in regards to throwing as well as strength training in general. This routine is 100% subject to change and everything in it makes perfectly good sense as to how it'll translate into a throw. I'm happy with the exercises in the routine (that doesn't mean I won't be removing or adjusting some of them). However, I'm not 100% confident on the smaller things that can certainly make a difference (like the sets/reps on some things, how much weight to use on both strength and explosive days in relation to my max, and other small things). I've yet to disregard anything someone has said. I may have responded to it with the purpose of better understanding what they mean, where they're coming from, or simply their view on what they've said.

Guys are going to believe what they want to believe and do what they want to do. They will find a way to convince themselves...
I personally think you are making things too complicated, I'd just focus on getting stronger. But I am not a thrower so what do I know?

I'm with you for the most part. It's only complicated because I'm new to all this and I'm trying to learn and better understand. I am focused on getting strong and I'm just getting as much good advice on how to reach that goal (there's been atleast 40 people giving me different suggestions and comments). I'm taking the wealth of knowledge that has been presented to me and trying to combine it in the most effective way possible.

[RhodeHouse]

Half of this is correct, and half isn't. You're right I dont have a damned clue on how to train effectively for throwing, that's why I'm here. You're wrong that I simple disregard what everyone says in favor of my own thoughts. My routine has changed DRASTICALLY from what it was, and certainly for the better. My posts in response to others like Chris aren't to tell them that I know everything (I surely don't) it's to clarify to them the questions in their post. I've been tracking this topic on 3 forums and taking advice from everyone who seems to have knowledge of lifting in regards to throwing as well as strength training in general. This routine is 100% subject to change and everything in it makes perfectly good sense as to how it'll translate into a throw. I'm happy with the exercises in the routine (that doesn't mean I won't be removing or adjusting some of them). However, I'm not 100% confident on the smaller things that can certainly make a difference (like the sets/reps on some things, how much weight to use on both strength and explosive days in relation to my max, and other small things). I've yet to disregard anything someone has said. I may have responded to it with the purpose of better understanding what they mean, where they're coming from, or simply their view on what they've said.


I'm with you for the most part. It's only complicated because I'm new to all this and I'm trying to learn and better understand. I am focused on getting strong and I'm just getting as much good advice on how to reach that goal (there's been atleast 40 people giving me different suggestions and comments). I'm taking the wealth of knowledge that has been presented to me and trying to combine it in the most effective way possible.

And here's a huge problem. You're getting information from way too many sources. 40 different people all telling you that they are right. Instead of asking people who don't throw, probably aren't very strong in the first place and who, themselves, probably have no idea what they're doing, why not google a thrower's lifting routine? I'm sure they are out there. I train college athletes and I can tell you throwers don't train like your program, at all.

Here's a hint - Nothing you do in the weight room will make you a better thrower, EVER! All it will do is make you stronger. The technique and skills involved in throwing (not plyometric drills - actual throwing) will make you a better thrower.

[DravenCarey]

Here's a hint - Nothing you do in the weight room will make you a better thrower, EVER! All it will do is make you stronger. The technique and skills involved in throwing (not plyometric drills - actual throwing) will make you a better thrower.

Yea I'm with ya about all the people giving me advice. But this routine was brainstormed with the help of a few ex-throwers on these different forums. And quite contrarily, most of the video's I watch on throwing related lifting involve most of these exercises (some of cleans which I can't do because of my arm) or some variant of these exercises. I throw 3-5 times a week so I'm not relying on lifting to help me throw. I'm relying on lifting to help me throw further.

[Travis Bell]

Rhodes is pointing out that being a better thrower and throwing farther are two different things is all. And he's right.

Look either you want to edit your routine or you don't. There's been a lot of high quality advice given in here.

[chris mason]

Here's a hint - Nothing you do in the weight room will make you a better thrower, EVER! All it will do is make you stronger. The technique and skills involved in throwing (not plyometric drills - actual throwing) will make you a better thrower.

Hey, I think I said that...

[chris mason]

FYI, lateral jumps using both feet and switching the loading from one foot to the other in your throwing motion have almost no correlation from the standpoint of your nervous system, so no, lateral jumps aren't going to do anything for you...

[DravenCarey]

Rhodes is pointing out that being a better thrower and throwing farther are two different things is all. And he's right.

Look either you want to edit your routine or you don't. There's been a lot of high quality advice given in here.

Sure, there's a difference between being a better thrower and throwing farther. However, the point is irrelevant to the topic. Not only am I already throwing 4-5 days a week, I've asked for help that will assist me in becoming a stronger, more dynamic thrower (not technique work, that's what my coach is for). And I certainly don't have a problem changing up my routine provided it makes sense to me on how it'll translate into my athletic goals (hell, just look at what I started with and what I ended up with). I can't incorperate everyone's suggestions. Everybody has a different philosophy on weight training, even more so when it applies to a sport (a sport that many have probably never done). So people shouldn't feel like I'm blowing off their advice in favor of my own hardheadedness. This routine wasn't made by me. It was made largely by an ex-thrower and it has been slowly changed and manipulated to better suit what I'm looking for. There is always room for improvement, and if after a few months I don't experience the gains I'm looking for, I'd be happy to try something else.

FYI, lateral jumps using both feet and switching the loading from one foot to the other in your throwing motion have almost no correlation from the standpoint of your nervous system, so no, lateral jumps aren't going to do anything for you...

Wild guess that you've never thrown huh? At the end of the throw, the thrower uses BOTH legs to thrust laterally. The shifting of weight from one leg to the other (when done correctly) lasts for about .25 seconds, if that. It's incredibly quick. So quick that most people wouldn't even know it happens. With that in mind it's important for a thrower to work on having a dynamic leg explosion/extension which is the entire purpose of those lateral jumps.

[patricky]

Why are you getting so defensive?
I saw both routines you posted. Both are garbage especially for someone lifting to improve a sport.

Something I've learnt in my years of lifting. DON'T try and make your own routines until you are advanced, even then it's probably better for most people to stick with one of the popular ones.

[RhodeHouse]

Sure, there's a difference between being a better thrower and throwing farther. However, the point is irrelevant to the topic. Not only am I already throwing 4-5 days a week, I've asked for help that will assist me in becoming a stronger, more dynamic thrower (not technique work, that's what my coach is for). And I certainly don't have a problem changing up my routine provided it makes sense to me on how it'll translate into my athletic goals (hell, just look at what I started with and what I ended up with). I can't incorperate everyone's suggestions. Everybody has a different philosophy on weight training, even more so when it applies to a sport (a sport that many have probably never done). So people shouldn't feel like I'm blowing off their advice in favor of my own hardheadedness. This routine wasn't made by me. It was made largely by an ex-thrower and it has been slowly changed and manipulated to better suit what I'm looking for. There is always room for improvement, and if after a few months I don't experience the gains I'm looking for, I'd be happy to try something else.



Wild guess that you've never thrown huh? At the end of the throw, the thrower uses BOTH legs to thrust laterally. The shifting of weight from one leg to the other (when done correctly) lasts for about .25 seconds, if that. It's incredibly quick. So quick that most people wouldn't even know it happens. With that in mind it's important for a thrower to work on having a dynamic leg explosion/extension which is the entire purpose of those lateral jumps.

You are clearly right, here. Your program is fantastic. I've never seen a better one put together, ever. In all my years in strength and conditioning as a coach and athlete, I'm just blown away by how good this program is. I don't know why you even bothered posting it here because it is so good. The rest of the board, including myself, who is much more experienced and stronger should scrap everything we're doinb and follow this gem.

[Travis Bell]

^haha

Only thing I'll say is that I've worked with several collegiate throwers, all of whom threw over 54'. One threw 58'. Not world record, but not shabby either. None of them used a program like you outlined.

Chris is actually right about the lateral jumps. It doesn't matter if you are gliding or spinning. The lateral jumps won't help for the very point you made. It's such a short amount of time, you'd need to be jumping at a ridiculous speed to have it benefit you. Just working on regular box jump variations will really be more than adequate for you.

[DravenCarey]

Why are you getting so defensive?
I saw both routines you posted. Both are garbage especially for someone lifting to improve a sport.
"A sport" is pretty generic. For throwing discus, I don't see how this routine would be garbage. It involves a majority of the lifts found in other top end routines and it incorperates some of my weaknesses so that I can focus on those. If it's garbage please tell me why so I can be better informed.

Something I've learnt in my years of lifting. DON'T try and make your own routines until you are advanced, even then it's probably better for most people to stick with one of the popular ones.
Don't know how many times I'll end up saying it but this routine was NOT designed by me. It was a conglomerate of many people who have thrown or who coach throwing.

You are clearly right, here. Your program is fantastic. I've never seen a better one put together, ever. In all my years in strength and conditioning as a coach and athlete, I'm just blown away by how good this program is. I don't know why you even bothered posting it here because it is so good. The rest of the board, including myself, who is much more experienced and stronger should scrap everything we're doinb and follow this gem.

Seriously now? When did I ever claim that this was the holy grail of lifting. Never. I've simply said that everything in it makes perfect sense to me on how it'll translate into what I'm looking for. Don't get rude because I've not taken just your advice or just the advice of someone else here. I'm trying to experiment with different things to see what works for me. This is just the first in that line of experiments. If it doesn't work out then I'll happily change it to something else that has been suggested.

^haha

Only thing I'll say is that I've worked with several collegiate throwers, all of whom threw over 54'. One threw 58'. Not world record, but not shabby either. None of them used a program like you outlined.
That's awesome (that you've got experience with someone who throws) but keep in mind that someone who does shot put does not train the same as a discus/hammer thrower. The body types are drastically different and the skillset and training needed are completely different.

Chris is actually right about the lateral jumps. It doesn't matter if you are gliding or spinning. The lateral jumps won't help for the very point you made. It's such a short amount of time, you'd need to be jumping at a ridiculous speed to have it benefit you. Just working on regular box jump variations will really be more than adequate for you.

Probably should have stated that the lateral jumps are to a box. So I guess that would be a box jump variation. The primary reason I do the lateral box jumps is to work being more dynamic with my legs (my legs are my weakpoint). So I would imagine that no matter what type of box jump I do, it'd all benefit the same. I'm no plyometrics guru but if you all know of a variation that would work better by all means let me know about it and why it is better. Thanks for those who have posted so far.

[DontTakeEmOff31]

Hire yourself a trainer. Then spend the first session, and probably every session after that, explaining to him the right program for you to use. Listen to everything he has to say, but remember that you only want to listen to the things that you agree with, everything else he says would be garbage.

[DravenCarey]

Well since this routine is apparently so crap-tastic, can someone tell me (specifically) what's wrong and why it's wrong. I've never been the type to simply accept what I'm told. I like to have reasonable backing on information before I feed into it. If you've got something constructive to put forward please do. If you're going to continually tell me that everything is terrible about this routine without being able to back up the information (when I ask questions/try to qualify what I've got) then please go elsewhere. I'm simply here to learn, not interested in anyone being rude or snarky. That said, have at it:

Monday (Upper Body- Maximum Strength):
Upper Body- Bench Press (5x5), Military Press w/ Smith Machine (5x5), Pendlay Rows (5x5), Dips (5x5), Face Pulls (4x10)
Plyometrics- Lateral Box Jumps (3x6), Forward Double Leg Jumps (3x6), Single Leg Tuck Jumps (3x6), Plyometric Bar Tosses w/ Smith Machine (3x6)


Tuesday (Lower Body- Explosiveness):
Lower Body- Box Squat (8x3), Snatch (8x3), Deadlifts (8x3), Stiff-legged Deadlifts (8x3)
Core Work- Russian Twists (3x10), Windshield Wipers (3x10), Weighted Back Extensions (3x10), Sit-ups (3x10)

Wednesday (Flexibility):
Flexibility- Yoga

Thursday (Upper Body- Explosiveness):
Upper Body- Close Grip Bench Press (8x3), Military Press w/ Smith Machine (8x3), Cable Rows (8x3), Bent Over Rows (8x3), Face Pulls (8x3),
Plyometrics- Lateral Box Jumps (3x6), Forward Double Leg Jumps (3x6), Single Leg Tuck Jumps (3x6), Plyometric Inclined Bar Tosses w/ Smith Machine (3x6)


Friday (Lower Body- Maximum Strength):
Lower Body- Squat (5x5), Deadlifts (5x5), Stiff-legged Deadlifts (5x5), Goodmornings (4x5-6)
Core Work- Russian Twists (3x10), Windshield Wipers (3x10), Weighted Back Extensions (3x10), Sit-ups (3x10)

[Travis Bell]

This really has just spun its wheels long enough. If you still are not sure what is wrong with the program, look back over the thread.

For someone as young and inexperienced as you, you sure do have this all figured out. Lots of luck.