twice a week back horizontal/vertical

[bgb1990]

i have been lifting chest twice a week for the last few weeks and have seen CRAZY improvement in my overall strength of my chest, so i figured why not try it for back as well. this week is the 5th week ive done chest two times and is going to be the last so i thought i would do two back days as well. my split idea would be as follows.

Monday: chest
Tuesday: back (vertical)
Wednesday: shoulders
Thursday: legs
Friday: back (horizontal)
Saturday: arms
Sunday: off

for my vertical day i was going to do deadlifts, pullups, close grip chin ups, pull downs, and barbell shrugs.
horizontal day would be barbell rows, dumbbell rows, seated machine rows, and hyperextensions.

any input as to changes i should make or exercises would be great.

[Bako Lifter]

You're seeing great improvement so your going to stop?

Why don't you just follow baby got back. I thought that's what your name stood for anyways lol.

[bgb1990]

well when i started my twice a week chest i was only planning on doing it for a few weeks to make sure i didnt overtrain my chest. i could keep it going for longer but isnt that ill advised?

[Cards]

... but isnt that ill advised?

nope

[Alex.V]

Pullup/pulldown motions work the majority of back muscles in the exact same manner as rows. The primary difference is rear delt and/or lower back involvement (to change the angle of the major force vector, which is lat contraction... which moves the humerus from 45 degrees above the transverse plane to the sides.)

Point being- no such thing as "vertical" and "horizontal" days- if you're going to do back twice a week, you'd be better off alternating intensity and volume on the two days versus choice of lifts.

[Cards]

Pullup/pulldown motions work the majority of back muscles in the exact same manner as rows. The primary difference is rear delt and/or lower back involvement (to change the angle of the major force vector, which is lat contraction... which moves the humerus from 45 degrees above the transverse plane to the sides.)

Point being- no such thing as "vertical" and "horizontal" days- if you're going to do back twice a week, you'd be better off alternating intensity and volume on the two days versus choice of lifts.

This is actually new to me, never thought about it that way.

[Allen Cress]

It would be better emphasizing strength(3-6 reps) on one day and Hypertrophy(6-15 reps) & contractions on the other.

[bgb1990]

ok thanks all

[Meat_Head]

Anyone else think 6 days a week is a bad idea? I know Arnie did it, but sheesh.

Seems to me (and I could be wrong) that it would be better to go with something like this:

Monday: chest
Tuesday: back and shoulders
Wednesday: off
Thursday: legs
Friday: back and arms
Saturday: off
Sunday: off

Or maybe have one of the days just back, and the other combined with arms or shoulders. What kind of volume are you doing for back? What does a normal back workout for you look like?

[bgb1990]

it really depends on your own body. my body actually loves working out 6 days a week, each muscle twice a week. but when i started lifting that would not have worked for me at all. if 4 days a week works for your body, then stick with that

[Meat_Head]

Pullup/pulldown motions work the majority of back muscles in the exact same manner as rows. The primary difference is rear delt and/or lower back involvement (to change the angle of the major force vector, which is lat contraction... which moves the humerus from 45 degrees above the transverse plane to the sides.)

I have to ask... where do you put deadlifts(or variations) in all of this? A lift that everyone says is essential for back development, yet which taxes the entire posterior chain? Quite different from a pulldown or pullup, right?

[bgb1990]

well generally when ive looked at vertical/horizontal routines most people place it with vertical. but you are right it hits pretty much every muscle not just in the posterior chain, but in the body.

[Alex.V]

I have to ask... where do you put deadlifts(or variations) in all of this? A lift that everyone says is essential for back development, yet which taxes the entire posterior chain? Quite different from a pulldown or pullup, right?

I wouldn't really consider it a "back" exercise- mostly because it doesn't really activate most back muscles in the same way as rows or pulldowns. I categorize them as a lower body lift, since they do tax the erectors, hamstrings, and glutes as much if not more so than squats.

[Meat_Head]

Ah, agreed.