Deadlift help

[bbotelhoHI]

whats up WBB, im not necessarily new to the whole strength training thing, but am relatively new to deadlifting. i know there are variants in style and grip, but i just cant find that "groove" that makes the lift comfortable. the other week i was doing 6x285 as my final working set (first time back in the gym in close to 2 years) which caused a lot of tension in my lower back. the weight wasnt necessarily the problem, apparently i over-arch my lower back when bringing up the weight. to be honest, i feel as though i could easily go up another 50 for a PR pull. whats holding me back is that i know my technique needs work. took a week off of deads since my back was still tight, and hit them again today at another relatively low weight of 255. one of the guys that works at the gym came over to me and told, not suggested, told me that i needed to use a belt and/or drop weight because i was doing it wrong. i was thoroughly mind fucked at that point since i felt fine, but that just fucked my whole leg routine for the day.

enough babbling. i want to hear from you all what i should be looking for/at when im doing a normal sumo style deadlift (primary pull for my workout) as well as your standard deadlift. mind you i use an olympic grip typically in line with my shoulders (i was told to hold wider than my knees today. wtf?!?).

thanks for whatever advice, tips, or feedback you got!

aloha, B.

[Falcon63]

It may be something else, but often times people over-arch their lower back trying to keep their UPPER back straight (their thoracic spine). Try stretching your thoracic out a lot (though NOT before you lift).

It's really easy to stretch it. All you have to do is pull your shoulder blades together with your palms facing FORWARD. Look in the mirror. Try it with your palms facing backwards and then with your palms forwards. You will notice a HUGE difference that you may not have noticed before. Thoracic kyphosis, or upper back rounding, is often what causes lower back pain and poor posture.

[J L S]

This should clear alot up. You did the right thing in lowering the weight if in doubt though. As for the grip in line with your shoulders is fine. Usually bigger guys with bigger guts who find it harder to get down to the bar take a much wider grip than most, as it helps with locking out the pull.

[bbotelhoHI]

so it seems that my form wasnt too far off, so im still confused as to the basis of the correction earlier today. i just found out that my evening class was cancelled so maybe ill hit the gym again and video tape my form and movement. one thing i did notice is the explosiveness these lifters have. its definitely something im lacking atm...in all three major lifts.

[MarcusWild]

Video your lifts because people are just guessing without seeing it. I've honestly never seen someone over arch.

[bbotelhoHI]

Video your lifts because people are just guessing without seeing it. I've honestly never seen someone over arch.

after watching quite a bit of videos on deadlift form on youtube, i was thinking the exact same thing... hopefully i can get one up soon!

[bbotelhoHI]

heres a quick video i took at the end of todays workout. its only light at 135#, but i only did it to get the motion on film. next week ill probably record 255 and up...with a belt. hehe.

http://www.facebook.com/v/10151232266569757

hmmm... its not embedding the video, guess you gotta click the link.

[ScottYard]

Get a video up with a heavy weight and you should get some solid advice from the board.

[bbotelhoHI]

will do! thanks. the gym in my area is closed through monday, so it may be a bit, unless one of the others nearby are open. no car = hoofing it from here to there

[bbotelhoHI]

heres a better video:

255x8 first set of the day. wouldve recorded the other pulls, but another group needed to use the station between where i was recording and where i was working out.

[bbotelhoHI]

nobody? one thing that has been mentioned by friends of mine that are into strength training is to ditch the belt at the lower weights...

[muscle_g]

I think you need to sit back more, also to me it looks like you are rounding the lower back. It almost looks as if you are trying to do a conventional style pull with a sumo stance.

[bbotelhoHI]

sit back more as in ass lower? i notice a curve in my upper to mid back, around the shoulder blades, but...? last time i was pulling decent weight, i was told that i was over-arching my lower back. hmmm.

[Judas]

My advice to you would be to learn how to clean-deadlift (olympic weightlifting style), and use that form almost exclusively. Learning how to do that perfectly will train you to do all the things you want to do in a perfect deadlift... perfectly... and done right they will even carry over to a LOT ov other stuff, like squats, core, olympic lifts (if you do them). They STRESS perfect lower and middle back positions, stress the core strength (and you can toss the belt for good), and really hammer the shit out ov your legs too.

Even if you are not and/or will never be an olympic lifter, or even do the olympic lifts, it is just the quickest way to a perfect deadlift. If your goal is to powerlift, and get a massive PL style pull then once you are very strong at them you can make the rather minor adjustments that differentiate the two, and you'll end up with an even stronger deadlift than you would have.

You are also FAR less likely to get injured doing clean deads as you are doing normal deads. The only 'downside' (if you want to call it that) is that the weights will be a bit lower (or a lot lower, depending on how bad your core is) than normal deads. But if your ego can handle the hit and you stick with it you'll end up a much better lifter down the road.

[bbotelhoHI]

My advice to you would be to learn how to clean-deadlift (olympic weightlifting style), and use that form almost exclusively. Learning how to do that perfectly will train you to do all the things you want to do in a perfect deadlift... perfectly... and done right they will even carry over to a LOT ov other stuff, like squats, core, olympic lifts (if you do them). They STRESS perfect lower and middle back positions, stress the core strength (and you can toss the belt for good), and really hammer the shit out ov your legs too.

Even if you are not and/or will never be an olympic lifter, or even do the olympic lifts, it is just the quickest way to a perfect deadlift. If your goal is to powerlift, and get a massive PL style pull then once you are very strong at them you can make the rather minor adjustments that differentiate the two, and you'll end up with an even stronger deadlift than you would have.

You are also FAR less likely to get injured doing clean deads as you are doing normal deads. The only 'downside' (if you want to call it that) is that the weights will be a bit lower (or a lot lower, depending on how bad your core is) than normal deads. But if your ego can handle the hit and you stick with it you'll end up a much better lifter down the road.

so from what ive read, its a narrower stance (under hips), toes slightly outboard, double overhand grip with knees tracking over your feet and back as near vertical as possible with shoulders over the bar, correct? im looking at it and i still cant differentiate between that and a conventional deadlift. mind you, im relatively new to deadlifting, dont remember if i stated that before or not, so my learning curve right now is pretty steep. doesnt help that there arent many heavy pullers in my gym, and the ones that do work out in the evenings...when i go to class. shit. im kinda SOL when it comes to a mentor at the gym now and learning as i go and self teaching. definitely not the best approach, but gotta make due with what i got, right? i dont deadlift till next week tuesday again (supposed to be sumo / romanian, might just do clean / romanian), but ill get another video of that to get your opinions and suggestions. thank you for taking the time to respond. i really appreciate it!

[bbotelhoHI]

oh yeah. one of the hardest things has been checking that ego at the door. old numbers still linger in my mind and makes these new, low numbers quite discouraging at the moment. humility is still one of the hardest pills to swallow...guess itll be a while till i try for 500