ECA on a bulk??

[Saint Patrick]

Should I be taking ECA while trying to bulk, and add lean body mass? Will it mess up my gains, or will it just help me to minimize fat gain?

[Dominator]

Well after a month or so of continued use, an ECA will down regulate the beta-2 receptors. During this time period it will obviously in crease your metabolism, but some report ECA use as an appetite suppressant. If you really want to I would just take a small amount pre workout for extra energy. I cycle on my ECA durring cutting and off durring bulking diets mainly to allow my body to up regulate the beta-2 receptor

Just my .02

[body]

yep

you may have to eat more to gain weight, but hopefully the weight you gian will be leaner mass, so in the long run, you have to diet less.

[Saint Patrick]

Originally posted by body
yep

you may have to eat more to gain weight, but hopefully the weight you gian will be leaner mass, so in the long run, you have to diet less.

Well that's what I'm aiming for, is to bulk up about 20-30 lbs with as little fat gain as possible. I'm just wondering if ECA would help minimize the fat gain during my bulk, or if I'd be better doing like dominator and just not take it until I cut.

[Tiare]

Not worth it. The idea behind ECA stacks is to allow EXISTING fat cells to be more easily accessed during your body's deficit. If you are bulking, your body probably isn't going to have much of a deficit so your body won't bother to access the fat cells for energy. don't take drugs if you don't need them, they f**k with your liver.

[body]

ECA is not exactly heptra toxic now.

ECA is a nutrion partioner so will help you decrease fat mass gains.

[tony touch]

why not cycle off the eca during your bulk up period so that u can fully utilize te eca when you're cutting?

if you're having trouble getting your energy jacked up, drink a red bull or 2 or a couple of espressos or something of that nature. or u could just try more sleep


oh by the way, you're not gonna put on 20-30 lbs onto your frame without putting some fat on also. its hard enough to do it on the sauce, its extremely hard doing it natty

[Saint Patrick]

Originally posted by tony touch

oh by the way, you're not gonna put on 20-30 lbs onto your frame without putting some fat on also. its hard enough to do it on the sauce, its extremely hard doing it natty

Dude of course I expect to gain fat, I was just wondering if taking ECA during the bulk will help w/ keeping fat gain at a minimum.

[Fuel]

i think ECA stack has caffeine??

if it does, caffeine screws with your glucose uptake capabilities (into muscles) and glucose useability too (while lifting weights). it also screws with insulin sensitivity. DO NOT use this while bulking. (probably shouldn't use it ever, but that's a different discussion...)

here is a quote from a discussion on musclemag.com, part of an article on testosterone magazine:

Hit up T-mag dot com and go to issue 214, appetite for construction.

as found in t-mag.com, issue 214, Appetite for construction

Coffee Drinkers Beware!

While there were several interesting topics presented, including a lecture given by a MD/PhD and research superstar Wim Saris who confirmed all of my incessant ramblings about the value of protein and amino acids with glucose and maltodextrin in a post-workout drink, the topic I found most interesting was the research presented on caffeine/coffee and insulin sensitivity.

For a while now I've been cautioning my clients and T-mag readers about the ill effects caffeine and typical thermogenic agents have on insulin sensitivity. Well, at the University of Guelph they've been investigating this issue intensively and here's what they found:

1) Caffeine intake (in all of its forms) decreases whole body glucose disposal (carbohydrate uptake) by 15-30%.

2) Caffeine intake decreases skeletal muscle glucose disposal by 50%.

3) When consumed with a standard carbohydrate breakfast, caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity, leading to large increases in blood insulin. But even in the face of this insulin surge, blood glucose doesn't disappear at a normal rate. When the body can't take up carbohydrates properly (as when drinking coffee), it releases loads of insulin to help out. However, the coffee actually prevents the insulin from doing this job and you end up with high insulin and glucose. That, my friends, is the serum profile of the obese, type II diabetic.

4) Caffeine decreases insulin sensitivity for at least three hours (this is the duration of the longest study they've performed), but the true duration of the effect isn't known. I speculate that it's at least five hours, the half life of caffeine.

In this case, many people are probably walking around all day with impaired insulin sensitivity. If you're a coffee drinker you should realize that you're living your life like a diabetic except during the times that it could actually be diagnosed. When you go to the doc to see why you're so fat or you feel like crap (if you have any glucose or insulin tolerance problems), what do you have to do? You have to fast overnight and avoid coffee! So 99% of your waking life you're functionally diabetic and that 1% of the time when it really matters and can be diagnosed, you're not. No wonder experts suggest that 50% of North Americans are diabetics who aren't diagnosed as such.

5) In one study, four groups were used to evaluate the effect of caffeine and glycemic index on insulin sensitivity.

• The first group got decaf and a low-GI breakfast. They saw a normal blood glucose and insulin response.

• The second group got decaf and a high-GI breakfast. They saw a bigger insulin and glucose response in the blood.

• However, when the low GI group got regular coffee with breakfast, their blood profile was worse than that of those who got the high-glycemic breakfast and decaf. Therefore coffee/caffeine can turn a low glycemic meal into a high glycemic meal!

• Finally, the group that drank coffee and had the high-glycemic meal ended up looking like diabetics.

6) One interesting hypothesis generated at the seminar was as follows: In terms of insulin sensitivity, caffeine alone is worse than coffee and obviously (as seen above) coffee is worse than nothing. However, some people believe that certain substances in coffee (specific quinides) can actually increase glucose disposal and improve insulin sensitivity. While the quinide content of coffee isn't strong enough to counter the effects of the caffeine, the quinides in decaf coffee may actually increase glucose and insulin tolerance. This hypothesis still needs to be tested and proper doses have yet to be discussed; however, keep your eyes out for this research in the near future.

So the final word on coffee and caffeine is this — stay the heck away from it! The only way to minimize the damage it causes may be to drink your coffee with a very low carbohydrate meal and eat only low carb meals for the next few hours after your coffee intake. I know, I know, it now sucks to be a coffee drinker! But giving up your java may bring you some great health and physique benefits.