Wtf Is Wrong With Our World?!?!?!

[Celestial]

There has been so many things going on in this world and the more I hear the more disgusted and sad I get. Here are some examples. There was a woman here who was going to look for work up north, she dropped her kids of with an old high school friend to watch them while she was away. Well one was 4 and the other 2. The 2 yr old soiled his pants and the ladies boyfriend socked him in the face 5 times. On the fifth time he went braindead/unconsious and died. They dumped his body off the side of the highway in plain view over here in Tampa. 10 days later it was found after he was reported missing. I CANT BELIEVE THIS ****! And just today I heard of a 13 yrs old kid getting beat to death for A DOLLAR! He was beat with a baseball bat, thrown into a closet and died there. The culprits where 18 year old female and a 20 year old male. OVER A GOD DAMN DOLLAR!!! WTF is this world coming too! It gives me all the more reason to pray. Man it's just been bugging me and I thought I would get it off my chest!

[freztek]

Prayer is good, I pray daily.

Yah this world is jacked. So many pychos out there. Situations like your 2 stories happen daily in this world and its sick.

[Reinier]

worst thing is, thats the kinda thing that sometimes happens in the us or eu. in third world countries they dont know better than that **** and worse

[McBain]

making headlines over here, 14 men gangraped something like 7 different women over a two month period; f--king scum are awaiting their sentences. **** like this really makes me so goddamn mad.

[gregnb]

Sad to say, but this is only the tip of the iceberg. Who knows how ugly it's going to get as time continues

[JohnCollins]

Problem is extremely basic. We've used to have the (obvious, IMHO) viewpoint that man is basically evil and than character development is the process of forming the conscience and raising children from a young age to know right from wrong--which means that there has to BE a right and wrong, so as to help the adult keep their baser instincts in check. I'd frequently like to haul off and smack my wife when she pisses me off, that's normal--but I don't do it because of the way I was raised. I simply can't hit her. The influences within me preventing that are stronger than the impulses to hit her. This character formation process worked with most people. With those it didn't work for there was jail, and for this person who beat the 2-year old to death, there was the gallows or the electric chair. All just fookin fine, in my book.

Now, we've gone to the viewpoint that man is basically GOOD and that bad behavior is prima facie evidence of some sort of malfunction and the bad egg needs to be helped. We have to understand and help them overcome whatever bad karma is screwing up their naturally good self. Furthermore, there is simply no absolute good and bad. It would be horrible to criticize that person who beat the 2-year old without trying to understand what made her do it. How insensitive.

Most of the people seem to live in California, but unfortunately they are drawn to the media and the university where they infect countless others with this bullsh|t way of thinking, and weak minded folks who can't reason well on their own (another thread topic, the inability of people today to THINK rationally--they vent emotion instead and confuse this with logical thought) start to spout off the same nonsense.

I don't know what the solution to the devolution of societ is, but the solution to the case you mentioned is to fast-track trials for heinous cases like this so they rise to the top of the judicial calendar immediately. The perpetrator deserves the full defense of the legal system, but once found guilty, that person needs to be offed within 90 days. There should be an immediate and mandatory appeal of death sentences which should also be fast tracked and mandated to be over within, say, 90 days. Within 18 months at the absolute tops, this perp should be fried.

Problem is you can't have a discussion with people who don't believe there is an absolute right and wrong and who believe we need to "understand" why the person killed that two year old. They're incapable of rational thought, they can only emote, and if you are a thinking person your head will explode when you try to reason with them and it's about as effective as my trying to reason with my border collie would be. That's why I don't know how to change society.

Unfortunately a large number of adults are running around without any moral compass or formed conscience and it's too late for most of them. These are the folks who beat other people when they're angry. They don't need understanding, they need to be incarcerated. Society fu(ked up when they were young, but it's too late for them. For young people, they need to start being taught right and wrong and wrong behavior needs to be punished. For those who are still basically sociopaths, mandatory jail time (we ought to eliminate parole -- they're either guilty or not -- why should someone who committed armed robbery get out before another armed robber because they behave in prison? They either did the crime or they didn't. I don't need to feel sorry for them, worry about why they did it or become lenient with them because they straighten up and fly straight. Fu(k 'em! Parole is part of the problem). For murderers, fry 'em.

For those folks incapable of thinking rationally, they'll argue that we'd have a repressed, twisted society waiting to explode if we do what I suggest. No we won't. We had a much safer, saner and more polite society when I was a kid than we do now. Incivility is rampant. Now we have the twisted society because we have not formed consciences in the last 20 years.

The solution is SIMPLE, but it is not EASY. People confuse simple/complex with equating to easy/hard. Not so. A lot of what I do at work is very simple, but devilishly difficult, and a lot of what I do at work is extremely complex, but realtively a snap to do. I don't know how to change society, becuase the nutjobs have a practically absolute lock on the news media, the entertainment media and the educational system. But the solution, while very difficult, no doubt, is incredibly SIMPLE. Start teaching right from wrong, start forming consciences from a young age, and eliminate parole and start implementing hard jail time and lots of executions for truly heinous murders (I'm not a capital punishment nut, a drug dealer shoots another drug dealer, life in prison is fine--for the person who beat that two-year old to death--must be killed, no other option). In twenty years or so, we'll be back to the way it was. And it will gradually but quickly start to improve. Unfortunately, this WON'T happen.

For the liberals in the crowd, notice I did not mention GOD! Not necessary. Atheists for centuries agreed with all of the above too. We've only gotten too "smart" for this kind of thinking in the last quarter century or so. Remember the TV miniseries Lonesome Dove? Those guys weren't particularly religious, but they knew what had to be done when their buddy fell in with murderers. That hanging scene was terrific. They didn't ENJOY hanging their buddy, they loved him. But they knew what had to be done and got on with it. Even the guy they were hanging knew why they were doing it. He wasn't surprised. Powerful scene. Important lessons for today's society.

Whew! I feel MUCH better now!

JC

[nate allan]

while these are certainly horrendous acts, the world is not getting any worse, there have been bad things like this since time began, read history and your hear things ten times worse than this.

[JohnCollins]

Nate, wake up and smell the coffee. You are right about heinous crimes in history, and that proves my point about people--without any restraining influences in their upbringing--they are basically bad.

But if you think society with the nutjobs running the courts and universities today isn't any worse than our society was in, say the 1950's, you're not worth having a discussion with. The technique you just used is another one that gives us problems today. "Everybody does it" is and excuse to keep doing bad stuff. "We're not perfect, so we shouldn't judge." And yours, "This has been going on forever, you're getting all worried about nothing or seeing change where there is none" (your argument).

How old are you? If you're in your twenties, it's not your fault--go talk to someone over 40 or 50 and ask them if there was as much of this baby killing, old people killing, Columbine massacres, etcetera. Get a grip on reality. Society is sliding downhill, and fast. Yes this kind of thing has happened in the past and tends to be cyclical (the demise of ancient Rome is an example of similar bad times). But Today is very different than 30 years ago.

Don't post any more drivel like that, OK? No offense you probably can't help yourself, and I understand it's not your fault.

Yikes! Careful, folks, my blood pressure is still up there evidently.

JC

[Nights]

Question is, is there really more "baby killing, old people killing, columbine massacre, etcetc" then there was in the past or is it because of the fact that media (news, global information) that it is more well known about now adays? Chances are if you go back in time, you'd still find reports of these violence, but they would be harder to find because they'd be local reports. A small town killing wouldn't exactly hit the entire world, because there would have been no great news system.

That said, yes, I think society is (messed) up. I think we need to get over the "we need to understand these people" idea, and just kill them. I'm sick of every time I hear "well, he had a bad childhood, that's why he did it" or something like that.. and worse, lighter sentences because of that. It's not an excuse, and it certainly doesn't make the crime any less painful for the victims of it.

[Celestial]

Originally posted by gregnb
Sad to say, but this is only the tip of the iceberg. Who knows how ugly it's going to get as time continues

Aint that the truth

[JohnCollins]

Nights and Nate, I'm going to ask you to take it on faith things were different 30-40 years ago. Yes there were murders, yes there were bad people, and I'll grant you that the media loves to report all this bad stuff because it gets ratings. But I know you're both young or you wouldn't be suggesting things weren't really different then.

People were much more polite to both their friends and to strangers. People didn't bother locking their doors, their cars, worry about their kids being out alone. Yes there were drugs and robberies and all that. But to suggest there isn't more of it now, well, you're just embarrassing yourselves and you should stop.

Come on, there have to be more baby boomers out there who can help me set these gen-X'ers straight on RECENT history? Anybody? Nights, because of the changes in society I noted and you say you agree with, the incidence of these things has grown exponentially. I don't need to read history, I was raised in the sixties (as a child, not a teen or young adult, many of whom are the source of the problems in the media and academia today), and I KNOW what society was like.

People KNEW what was right and what was wrong, there didn't need to be any discussion about it, and folks were not worried about WHY bad people were bad. Peoples' consciences were better formed and they were better behaved because of it. We locked up criminals and held them longer, yet there were fewer people in prisons. We had people who murdered their children, we just had LESS OF THEM.

There are, and there have to be (logically speaking) consequences to not teaching absolute right and wrong and to not forming the consciences of young people today. Nights, to say you agree that there is a difference between how people view right and wrong today, and that you agree we coddle criminals too much today and more than we used to do, yet to then argue that there have been no changes in the incidence of heinous crime because of these changes is, well, silly.

I like both you guys, I'm not trying to hammer you because I'm a just a crank or a misanthrope, I'm sensing you're not the kind of fruits and nuts who got us into this mess in the first place and I think you're both reachable. I'm trying to get you to think . Come on, you can do it!

Please, some folks who grew up in the 50's and 60's help me out here. We all know there were Hitlers all through history, and there always have been folks (yes even in the 50's) who'd crowbar someone to death for a $5 bill and then go have lunch. But there were less of them running around when society attempted to form children to not grow up to be sociopaths--and when some did, we didn't try to undertand them, we locked them up and threw away the key. We've got to try to reach SOME of the younger folks in the universities now if there's any hope.

Nights, a corrolary to what you are saying about now not being any different is that if we do as you suggest, that is lock up the criminals and stop coddling them--it won't have any positive effect. Think about that for a moment. If that's true, then you're just being plain old mean spirited and you ought to go for coddling criminals and trying to "reform" them.

It was better before, right is right and wrong is wrong, the criminal justice system should be about protecting society from criminals--period--and not about trying to help criminals, and we need to start being more "judgemental". Society CAN improve. But this is the only way. There is no hope in the therapeutic movement. That way only lies more of the madness.

JC

[Big J]

Originally posted by Celestial
There has been so many things going on in this world and the more I hear the more disgusted and sad I get. Here are some examples. There was a woman here who was going to look for work up north, she dropped her kids of with an old high school friend to watch them while she was away. Well one was 4 and the other 2. The 2 yr old soiled his pants and the ladies boyfriend socked him in the face 5 times. On the fifth time he went braindead/unconsious and died. They dumped his body off the side of the highway in plain view over here in Tampa. 10 days later it was found after he was reported missing. I CANT BELIEVE THIS ****! And just today I heard of a 13 yrs old kid getting beat to death for A DOLLAR! He was beat with a baseball bat, thrown into a closet and died there. The culprits where 18 year old female and a 20 year old male. OVER A GOD DAMN DOLLAR!!! WTF is this world coming too! It gives me all the more reason to pray. Man it's just been bugging me and I thought I would get it off my chest!

Yeah, that's just plain sick! But what it usually comes down to is the small people tryin to find someone to bully on. Their targets - kids. Sad, sad, sad! Put em in jail for a while & I'm sure they'll get "bullied" themselves. I've heard stories of what the inmates do to rapist, child molesters, & people of that nature.
Way I see it - if a man rapes a woman, beats a kid, or something like that - throw him in a cell w/ some of the bigger inmates & all the gaurds turn their heads. Make them feel what the girl or kid had to!

[Neil]

This John Collins is a very smart fellow.
I think if you guys were to look at the per capita crime increases in the las 50 years you would see that he is hitting the nail right on the head. I am only 23 and I have not lived through the times he speaks of but you can ask anyone in their 50's or 60's and they will agree. Our country and society in general has gone way dawnhill in the last 50-60 years and it's very sad and it's being caused by people who claim to be intellectuals but really have no grasp on reality.

[JohnCollins]

God bless you, sir! NOT because of your nice words about me, but for restoring my faith in young people. Ideas do have consequences. The ideas prevalent today about there being no absolute right or wrong, that we should not be judgemental about ANYTHING, that we should let little children "find their own way" rather than attempt to form their consciences at an early age, that criminals are somehow "broken" and in need of treatment, etcetera, is giving rise to a society with way too many sociopaths.

I appreciate your post. You calmed me down a bit, maybe I'll stop ranting so much. I think maybe I wasn't being so civil my own self .

JC

[Nights]

Your right, I really don't know what the sixties and such were like, and you probably are right that things have gotten worse. I was also raised in a small town (got a 7-11 the year before I moved out sorta small), so maybe that's why I don't understand the not being taught right and wrong thing. There is a clear understanding on how to treat people where I'm from, mostly because when you do something wrong, or treat someone wrong everyone knows.. and holds a rather nice grudge. But that isn't the main reason you didn't treat people wrong, it's because you were raised with them and knew probably just as much about them as you did yourself. I'm not saying stuff didn't happen there, because every now and then something would, but when I moved out to the big city (calgary.. so small by most peoples standards), I learned a whole lot more about the shitty side of life. Maybe I'm still a little ignorant to it.

As to what you said about if thing haven't gotten worse, then it's just cruel to lock up these people that do these things, and not try to understand them.. then I disagree with that. Even if things haven't gotten worse, I'm still totally against the concept of babying criminals. You do something wrong, you should pay for it. In my eyes, you gave up every right you have as a person the moment you hurt someone else.

And I'm sure some peace loving hippy is going to post the standard "An eye for an eye makes the world go blind" deal on that last comment.

[Neil]

And I'm sure some peace loving hippy is going to post the standard "An eye for an eye makes the world go blind" deal on that last comment

I laugh every time I hear some peacenik say this. If we applied this philosophy then we'd have Hitler on our currency.

[JohnCollins]

It continues! Thanks, Nights! My faith in humanity is restored!

Yep, there have always been bad folks around, Nights, no doubt about it. But it is always better throughout history when society imposes a moral code and tries to form consciences in the schools and other institutions, and it is always worse when there is a non-judgemental, "anything goes and to each his or her own" kind of attitude.

I'd be willing to bet that your folks and your school teachers were not shy about telling you (not soliciting your opinion about it, mind you, but telling you) exactly what was right and what was wrong when you were growing up. Am I right? I'll also stick my neck out and venture to guess that if you smacked some other little kid in first grade to get his toy, you got smacked back? Or at least a STERN talking to and explanation why that was not right and why you should be ashamed of yourself, am I right?

These are the things that enable us to NOT smack our wives/kids or some sorry a$$ who sorely needs it when we are adults. It's perfectly normal to feel like you want to, but we need to have the controls on our behavior put in place at an early age. Having a nice smarmy conversation with a six-year old about, "Johnny, how would YOU feel if little Jimmy smacked you and took your toy? Would that feel good?" That can be part of the conversation, of course, but it has to be sterner than that. This is wrong, you don't do that sort of thing, if you persist in doing it, you OUGHT to feel bad about it (even if you don't) and just in case none of this gets through to you, you WILL be smacked. That works better.
I'd like to know if that's how you were brought up.

My sister has four kids that were raised with the anything goes and left to their own devices, they'll be little angels when they grow up. Her kids call her a biatch to her face and will even resort to hitting her, even though she never hits them and tries all the nice conversation stuff. Once on vacation with them, I threw her teenage daughter out of the room because I wouldn't tolerate her taling to my sister that way. When she responded she always talked to her that way, I said I really didn't care what she did at home, but she wasn't going to do it in my presence. I took her by the arm and led her out the door and got rid of her. Her mother immediately started to scream at me and warn me never to correct her kids, that was her job. She continued as to how she was happy her kids were "well adjusted enough and self-condifent enough" to express their true feelings to her, how well she communicated with them, etcetera. I threw her out, too (my other siblings and I were enjoying a few beers in a hot tub). There's no reasoning with someone like that, my sister has a non-functional intellect. But her kids are growing up to be little psychopaths and they are NOT happy, well-adjusted kids, let me tell you. One is kind of goth and has an unusual interest in very large knives with handles carved like Oranges "hotties" writhing in snakes, that sort of stuff. He truly scares me.

Let me know what the civilizing influences in your life were like, would you, Nights? Thanks.

JC

[JohnCollins]

Right on, Neil!!

Reminds me of the joke after 9-11 about how to "educate" peaceniks who were trying to understand "why" the terrorists hate us. Can't find it but it went something like this:

----------Educating a peacenik----------
When someone comes up to you and talks about how we ought to "understand" why some terrorists flew two airliners into two skyscrapers and one into the Pentagon and a Pennsylvania field, and why we shouldn't get all riled up and respond to senseless violence with more senseless violence--you owe it to both them and your fellow Americans to have compassion on them and educate them as to why sometimes we have to respond to violence with violence. Here's how to do it.

Right when they're in the middle of a sentence about how violence never solves anything, punch them in the face--hard. It should be hard enough that they at least drop to one knee.

When they get up, sputtering, "Hey, what did you do that for? We were just having a discussion..." Do it again. SMACK.

Repeat as necessary. Eventually, they WILL get up and rare back as if to take a swing at you. At that point, smile sweetly, back away and put your hands up and say, "Hey, wait a minute, hang on, buddy. Remember what you were saying about violence never solves anything? What is hitting me going to accomplish? Let's talk about this a little more and figure out what I was trying to accomplish when I hit you. Don't you want to understand why I did it???"

At this point they'll probably calm down and start sheepishly saying something like, "Yeah, thanks, man, I'm sorry I was going to hit you. You must have had some really good reason for wanting to hit me or you must have been really abused when your were younger or (insert your own blather here). You're right, violence never solves. . . ." SMACK HIM AGAIN, right in mid-sentence as he starts talking about the futility of violence.

This educational method is GUARANTEED to work. Sooner or later the person will realize that at some point you need to respond to senseless violence with--not more senseless violence, but cold, calculating, reasoned application of overwhelming force. He'll thank you for this education some day. Your country will thank you as well.
---------

Loved that one!

JC

[Nights]

My civilizing influences? Parents treated me like an equal, and held me to their own standards, I suppose. Can't ever remember them treating me like I was allowed to get away with stuff just because I was a kid and learning on my own.. but in a way, they didn't really force feed me right and wrong.

Teachers.. Throughout all of school, I was always in trouble. I got a problem shutting up and listening. I spent a lot of time in detention (nightly throughout junior), and maybe that taught me a bit. I don't see a problem with expressing your opinion, provided your willing to do it in a manner that isn't cuttng someone down and your willing to listen to their side as well.

Friends. Like I said, small town where everyone knows everyone. It's really, really hard to treat someone you were raised with wrong. I graduated with a hundred people and maybe 1 or 2 I wouldn't have considered a friend. And even them I wished no harm to. I suppose this is the major one. Even two years after moving out, it's hard to suddenly just change my view to "I don't know you, who gives a **** about you" when all I was use to was dealing with friends.

Oh, and work I suppose. Started fencing and stuff like that (farm labor) when I was probably 12. Think that made me grow up a bit.

[Ken Masters]

I can't believe I actually read through all of John's posts. You made some good points.
I do agree with you that society is crumbling. You're ignorant if you don't see this. The system isn't working. Eventually it will crack. Just like Rome and all other great civilizations.
What pisses me off are those that pray for better times. What does praying do for those of use who aren't religious? Those of you who are religious I say get your lazy ass up off your knees and get involved in making this world a better place instead of asking God to do it for you. Damn it supposedly he already gave this world to us, so we screw it up, and ask him to fix it. Come on.

[freztek]

Those of you who are religious I say get your lazy ass up off your knees and get involved in making this world a better place instead of asking God to do it for you. Damn it supposedly he already gave this world to us, so we screw it up, and ask him to fix it. Come on.

Originally posted by Ken Masters

(please don't turn this thread in to a religous debate)

I'm sorry you feel the need to attack people who pray. I don't pray for God to make the world a better place. Being a Christian I pray for safety of my own family, home, relationships, and direction of life. Also, if you believe in the Bible then you know this world isn't going to get better...only 1000x worse till the end. But if you don't believe in the Bible thats your choice. Nobody made me. I'm not pushing any views on anyone.

BTW Ken Masters since you have such strong views of what us PRAYING PEOPLE should do what have you done to make this world a better place?

[ForeverJason]

Hello,

All I got to say is this. JohnCollins could not be any closer to the truth. I haven't seen this type of accuracy for over 5 years. Almost everything he is saying is accurate and should be noted and listened to.

Cudos to you John.

Thank you for your time,

- Jason

[JohnCollins]

Thanks, folks! I'm amazed I haven't been flamed BIG-time for being a closed-minded, misanthropic throwback to uncivilized and "unenlightened" earlier times.

Ken, thanks for reading, I do go on when I get my blood up, don't I? Sorry about that.

As to religion, I pray, too, nothing wrong with that, but Ken is absolutely 100% on the mark. It ain't up to God to fix this mess, it's up to us, buckos! Frestek, I'm assuming something which may not be true, but I doubt Ken is bothered if you pray, as long as you're part of the solution. So many "religious" folks are the ones who just cluck their tongues and say "my, my" but don't do anything. They're like the ones in need of education in my earlier joke, and they disgust me, too. So keep praying, but for cryin' out loud start standing up to the ninnies who spread around all this pap about "understanding" criminals, and letting children "find their own way", etcetera. Somebody has to start telling these idiots that their therapeutic methods are what got us in this mess in the first place. I love my sister dearly, but I recognize she is the enemy. That kid of hers with the black clothes and the knife infatuation scares the daylights out of me. You don't have to abuse your kids to raise 'em up right. You just have to set down standards (standards implies they aren't flexible, which drives more enlightened folks nuts, too) and give kids limits.

This has to start a flame war, don't you think? I've been keeping my hard hat on and waiting for the nicey-nice folks to tell me how mean I am. I'm absolutely amazed it hasn't started yet. Thanks, Celestial, I'll give you your thread back, I'm done! Thanks all!

JC

[JohnCollins]

Yikes! Just noticed ForeverJason put up his first post.

Welcome to the board! There are some really superior folks around here and I've learned more about strength training here in a couple months than I think would have learned in the average college exercise course.

They're not all as long-winded as me, BTW. So don't let me scare you. Now I'm really done.

JC

[Tryska]

the inquisition was pretty damn ugly.

and that was done in the name of god.


the extermination of native americans was pretty ugly too. especially those small-pox infected blankets.

that was done in the name of country.


christians were fed to lions for the entertainment of the roman masses.

that was done just for fun.

women were sytematically raped and children enslaved in (insert name of war/tribal discord here)

that was done in the name of war.


as long as humantiy exists there will be inhumanity.