GPC or WPC...??? which is the bigger/better/more legit fed?

[Judas]

Suddenly i find myself with a choice ov the two. Both have a Nationals i can get to, both have a Worlds in Europe should the funds happen. Looking at some meet results and records i see a very thick depth ov lifters in the GPC, but the records are generally lower, and i dont recognize any names. The WPC's credibility takes a trashing in some circles, but their records are stronger and i recognize many famous names.

Any opinions on these feds? So far, aside from one very small (WPC-affiliated) meet i competed in, my only experience has been IPF... though i've been all over the world coaching in that fed.

[joey54]

What are you looking for exactly?

[BloodandThunder]

Your post is confusing. Are you asking for an opinion on the GPC vs WPF or the GPC vs WPC?

[Judas]

Your post is confusing. Are you asking for an opinion on the GPC vs WPF or the GPC vs WPC?

WPC WPC WPC WPC WPC. Shit... i dont know how i missed that. Dammit.

WPC is the CPF up here... confused poster is confused. If a mod could change the title that'd be swell.

[Judas]

What are you looking for exactly?

Exactly...???

IPF without WADA and without the buzzkill attitude. Also, the strongest possible competition. Raw Unity so far looks like the best ov all worlds... but thats only once a year and nowhere near here.

[joey54]

Seems like you are leaning towards WPC? That seems to be what you want in a fed?

[RhodeHouse]

Just sign up and compete. The only way to find out is to see what your area has to offer.

[Judas]

Seems like you are leaning towards WPC? That seems to be what you want in a fed?

They would be pretty good... except for the 4-6" high squats i see passed there regularly. I want an elite fed with the highest competition, basically... the IPF without the drug-testing and the stupid rules they keep coming up with.

My first comp was a CPF (WPC) one.

[joey54]

So you feel your lifts are more validated if the fed you compete in adheres strictly to the rules?

[Judas]

So you feel your lifts are more validated if the fed you compete in adheres strictly to the rules?

Not sure i get your meaning here...???

[joey54]

What is holding you back from committing to the WPC is your belief they pass high squats, so you do not like their judging is what I am taking from that. Does this mean you feel your own lifts could be compromised because of the perception of the judging?

[Judas]

What is holding you back from committing to the WPC is your belief they pass high squats, so you do not like their judging is what I am taking from that. Does this mean you feel your own lifts could be compromised because of the perception of the judging?

They DO pass high squats. It probably varies from meet to meet, as it does with any other fed, but as a general rule, pretty high. When you are used to cutting your depth to just the minimum, the higher above parallel you cut, the more you can lift. This is simple science. When you squat to IPF depth or lower, that advantage goes away. When they get 4-6" high, there is a VAST advantage to the high squatter. So far, at the meets i've been to i can still win against this, but at World levels, where i plan to compete... i'll be bringing a knife to a gunfight.

I'm a pretty easy guy to get along with, but i'll be honest... if it comes down to a medal fight, and i get edged by someone not coming within 5" ov parallel... i'd be pretty annoyed. Anyone would. For anyone that does squat like that about to get offended by this, consider this... You yourself get edged for the win by someone squatting a full 12" high... Yep. You be pissed too.

RUM judges pretty low, as does the IPF and 100% Raw from what i've seen. I wish RUM hosted more meets in more locations.


Now how about my question. Is the GPC generally a tighter or looser fed? Again, i see far more famous names in the WPC, but that might not tell the whole story.

[chris mason]

They DO pass high squats. It probably varies from meet to meet, as it does with any other fed, but as a general rule, pretty high. When you are used to cutting your depth to just the minimum, the higher above parallel you cut, the more you can lift. This is simple science. When you squat to IPF depth or lower, that advantage goes away. When they get 4-6" high, there is a VAST advantage to the high squatter. So far, at the meets i've been to i can still win against this, but at World levels, where i plan to compete... i'll be bringing a knife to a gunfight.

I'm a pretty easy guy to get along with, but i'll be honest... if it comes down to a medal fight, and i get edged by someone not coming within 5" ov parallel... i'd be pretty annoyed. Anyone would. For anyone that does squat like that about to get offended by this, consider this... You yourself get edged for the win by someone squatting a full 12" high... Yep. You be pissed too.

RUM judges pretty low, as does the IPF and 100% Raw from what i've seen. I wish RUM hosted more meets in more locations.


Now how about my question. Is the GPC generally a tighter or looser fed? Again, i see far more famous names in the WPC, but that might not tell the whole story.

One problem with your logic, you can go really deep and bounce out of the hole and that is a bigger advantage than cutting a squat a little high.

[Judas]

One problem with your logic, you can go really deep and bounce out of the hole and that is a bigger advantage than cutting a squat a little high.

I think if that were the case then the powerlifting elite would all do it. This would especially be true with wrapped lifters... as the wraps would give you that much more bounce. Also, i'm not talking about 'a little high' here... When we went to Iron Gladiators (APF) a few years ago they were squatting a little high, its far worse now.

I just found out that the IPA (and i assume the GPC as well?) dont have a raw division. Their 'raw' squats allow knee wraps. I guess my decision is made. Why does it always have to be such polar-opposite?

[joey54]

Judas, are you going to be setting world records? If so, I completey understand why making this decision is so important to you. Personally, I squat the same regardless of who is judging, so I haven't ever worried about such things. Though, I do competitions to give myself benchmarks to set my next goals rather then compete against others.

[Judas]

Judas, are you going to be setting world records? If so, I completey understand why making this decision is so important to you. Personally, I squat the same regardless of who is judging, so I haven't ever worried about such things. Though, I do competitions to give myself benchmarks to set my next goals rather then compete against others.

I hope to. I'm going to start with Master 1 world records, then if my knees still have cartilage in them from all the Olympic lifting i'll set my sights higher. I'm not one ov those 'compete against myself' kinda guys... training where i do i've had to do that for years. I wanna compete with other people now.

Does Raw Unity host more than one meet a year? Are they always in the same State?

[BloodandThunder]

You need to get some facts straight.

GPC is fed by the SPF, not IPA and allows wraps.
IPA RAW is defined as no knee wraps although I believe that has changed recently since IPA wants its lifters to have higher rankings on PowerliftingWatch's Raw rankings.
APF feeds into WPC.

Honestly if you are dead set on lifting raw and non-drug tested and want deep competition and "classic" lifting or whatever that means, look into RUM (only once per year - it's its own sanction and pulls lifters from all feds) or any type of "expo" meet like the Olympia, Fit Expo. The USPA runs alot of these and they're very similar to the old USPF and typically offer cash prizes and pull good lifters.

Competition is a skewed word. You can go to a "world" meet that has 500 lifters, but you may only lift against 6-7 guys in M1. Half these guys probably hit a meager total. There aren't many raw world level meets that aren't drug tested that pull lifters from all over the globe and have a deep roster. Your best bet is to go to a Raw Pro Am or the above raw meets where there are typically invites, and thus, a more prestigious meet.

[Judas]

You need to get some facts straight.

GPC is fed by the SPF, not IPA and allows wraps.
IPA RAW is defined as no knee wraps although I believe that has changed recently since IPA wants its lifters to have higher rankings on PowerliftingWatch's Raw rankings.
APF feeds into WPC.

I should clarify... The IPA i'm talking about is the Canadian version ov the GPC i'm told (Independent Powerlifting Association, based out ov Calgary). I dont think the IPA in the states is the same one? Its statements like that last one that really sour this sport for me... fudging standards to 'pad' numbers over competing feds. Why cant raw just be raw and geared be geared? Something for everyone.

Honestly if you are dead set on lifting raw and non-drug tested and want deep competition and "classic" lifting or whatever that means, look into RUM (only once per year - it's its own sanction and pulls lifters from all feds) or any type of "expo" meet like the Olympia, Fit Expo. The USPA runs alot of these and they're very similar to the old USPF and typically offer cash prizes and pull good lifters.

Competition is a skewed word. You can go to a "world" meet that has 500 lifters, but you may only lift against 6-7 guys in M1. Half these guys probably hit a meager total. There aren't many raw world level meets that aren't drug tested that pull lifters from all over the globe and have a deep roster. Your best bet is to go to a Raw Pro Am or the above raw meets where there are typically invites, and thus, a more prestigious meet.

Yeah... pretty much what i'm getting from all this. Only negative in that is Raw Unity is a very expensive meet for me to get to. Do any ov these Fit Expo or USPF/A meets ever come West? or North? Seems bloody everything good is in the Southeast States.

[BloodandThunder]

The Fit Expo is in Cali I believe. Raw 504 is in Lousiana. I believe the SPF runs a raw Pro/AM typically in Ohio. Hardcore Powerlifting runs promotions at expos in Texas and sometimes in Washington or Oregon. Take a look at what's available on PowerliftingWatch. Most non-tested big meets are these expo or coalition type meets since they offer cash payouts and besides the WPC, there really isn't a singular non-tested fed that has the global reach of say, an IPF.

They're not fudging standards. RAW means different things to different federations. For some that means knee wraps, for others that means none (some feds didn't allow wrist wraps at one point). It's not like they were suddenly allowing single ply briefs or deadlifting straps and still calling it raw. They're simply meeting a demand of the customer as IPA has very loyal lifters and since there is a lack of a true, singular national championship, PWatch rankings are about as close as we have (not to mention, higher ranking can open up sponsorship opportunities and be good for federation image, etc.).

[Bruiser]

If you're worried about poor judging and high squats, then any fed associated with SPF isn't gonna be for you. I've seen some real bad squats called good and given records. Not taking anything away from their lifters. They're moving weight that I may never be able to unrack. But if you're gonna be picky about who you complete for, you're gonna need to compromise somewhere. Every fed has good and bad judges, and good and bad meets.

[chris mason]

I think if that were the case then the powerlifting elite would all do it. This would especially be true with wrapped lifters... as the wraps would give you that much more bounce. Also, i'm not talking about 'a little high' here... When we went to Iron Gladiators (APF) a few years ago they were squatting a little high, its far worse now.

I just found out that the IPA (and i assume the GPC as well?) dont have a raw division. Their 'raw' squats allow knee wraps. I guess my decision is made. Why does it always have to be such polar-opposite?

It is not open argument, it is a physics and physiology based fact. Watch Olympic lifters back squat. I didn't say it was safe or advisable, but it is definitely done. And yes, many powerlifters including some of those in the IPF do just that.

[chris mason]

If you're worried about poor judging and high squats, then any fed associated with SPF isn't gonna be for you. I've seen some real bad squats called good and given records. Not taking anything away from their lifters. They're moving weight that I may never be able to unrack. But if you're gonna be picky about who you complete for, you're gonna need to compromise somewhere. Every fed has good and bad judges, and good and bad meets.

That same argument can be made for virtually every federation. And yes, even the IPF includes questionable calls. I have personally been at recent SPF meets where GOOD squats were turned down.

[burt128]

The USPA runs tons of meets in California every year, all over the state.

[Judas]

It is not open argument, it is a physics and physiology based fact. Watch Olympic lifters back squat. I didn't say it was safe or advisable, but it is definitely done. And yes, many powerlifters including some of those in the IPF do just that.

I AM an OLympic lifter. I know all about their back squats. What you are saying is that the majority ov elite powerlifters, who's very game is literally 1/3 squat (the other 2/3 being bench/dead) choose to do a harder form ov squat when chasing all-time world records? I do happen to believe that the best raw squatters are Olympic lifters, but everything else being equal, i'd bet money on the PL-style monolift squatter thats 4-6" high every time. Its the depth that is the distinct advantage.

[Judas]

If you're worried about poor judging and high squats, then any fed associated with SPF isn't gonna be for you. I've seen some real bad squats called good and given records. Not taking anything away from their lifters. They're moving weight that I may never be able to unrack. But if you're gonna be picky about who you complete for, you're gonna need to compromise somewhere. Every fed has good and bad judges, and good and bad meets.

Yeah... i hadn't planned on doing an SPF meet. Until this thread i wasn't aware that they 'fed' the GPC.