Very Low Back Pain

[NateDogg]

Ok,

I know the response of most is going to be "go see a doc." Which I plan on probably doing soon. I am requesting the help of those on the board who may know what is going on here. Basically, the pain I am feeling is a very dull pain in the sacrum area, very near the tailbone, slightly above. Does anyone have any idea what this may be? Is there a common injury that occurs there? If I increase the arch in my back, the pain increases and becomes more sharp. It has been lingering for a few weeks now.

Thanks,

NateDogg

[Delphi]

Assuming it's more to one side than the other, here's my list of what it could be:

muscle strain/pull
herniated disk with impingement on a nerve root
sacroiliac syndrome
avulsion of a transverse process off a vertebra
internal organ problem- kidney, colon, etc

Do you have any numbness/tingling in your butt or down a leg?
So it hurts more when you arch your back and stick your butt out?
If you stand on one foot or the other does it hurt more?
If you lie in bed or sit in your car for awhile and then stand up, what happens?


BTW I'm not going to tell you to see a doctor.























See a chiropractor.

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by Delphi
Assuming it's more to one side than the other, here's my list of what it could be:
***I have not noticed a side that the pain is on more, it is right in the middle.

muscle strain/pull
herniated disk with impingement on a nerve root
sacroiliac syndrome
avulsion of a transverse process off a vertebra
internal organ problem- kidney, colon, etc

Do you have any numbness/tingling in your butt or down a leg?
***No, although I do get a sharp pain in the front of my lower left leg occasionally, not sure if it is related.

So it hurts more when you arch your back and stick your butt out?
***Yes.

If you stand on one foot or the other does it hurt more?
***Just did that, no it does not.

If you lie in bed or sit in your car for awhile and then stand up, what happens?
***I do not notice anything that did not happen before the pain started.


BTW I'm not going to tell you to see a doctor.

See a chiropractor.
***Ok, there's one down the street from my apartment, I might just stop by one of these days. Are there any qualifications to look for?

Thanks so much Delphi, you are exactly the person I was looking for here. To add, you know the feeling you get in your chest when you get the "wind knocked out of you?" That is how the area feels all the time.

[Delphi]

Sorry to hear about your back problem. When mine goes out it affects almost every aspect of lifting. I tweaked mine pretty good two days ago by doing, of all things, sitting cross-legged on the floor for an hour, leaning forward while I was working on something. I'm supposed to do my pull routine today. If I'm lucky I'll be able to do chinups and maybe a seated DB curl. My particular problem occurs when I lean forward at the pelvis- makes my bad disk impinge on a nerve root. I can do squats, deadlifts, and seated OH presses without any problem at all.

As far as picking a chiropractor goes, I'm not sure what extra certifications they can hold. Lots of them advertise an interest/proficiency in sports medicine. I'm not sure if they hold extra training to be able to do that. MDs and DOs can take fellowship training after a residency, but I don't know if chiropractors do so also. Call one up and ask. If you don't get straight-forward answers, move on.

When you go see one, expect to get a load of Xrays. They look for structural defects of the vertebral column and pelvis. They're supposedly also to be able to tell certain functional problems by looking at them. Chiros are cool for this kind of problem. They use all kinds of cool words like spondylosis and spondylolisthesis. This past week I've been using words like pus and drunk and uninsured too much.


Good luck with it.

[Goin_Big]

If he says the words "Let's just see if we can pop this back in", please walk away

I had a similar thing hopefully you just got some swelling, a lil cortizone'll take care of that.

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by Goin_Big
If he says the words "Let's just see if we can pop this back in", please walk away

***lol, no problem

I had a similar thing hopefully you just got some swelling, a lil cortizone'll take care of that.
***I have a hard time going to doctors and stuff with stuff like this because in my eyes, it means admitting that I screwed something up and that I can not fix it myself. I hope to hell that it is something like that though! Check out my last journal entry, would those things have aggravated your problem?

[Goin_Big]

Squatting was out of the question when I hurt my back. I'm still not sure the doc was right in saying there was nothing wrong, but I'm kinda like you not liking to go to the doc. It was a good 5-6 months of pain before I finally went, lol.

I'd recommend some x-rays, better safe than sorry.

btw, with mine, doing squats was enough pain to almost cause me to puke

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by Goin_Big
Squatting was out of the question when I hurt my back. I'm still not sure the doc was right in saying there was nothing wrong, but I'm kinda like you not liking to go to the doc. It was a good 5-6 months of pain before I finally went, lol.

I'd recommend some x-rays, better safe than sorry.

btw, with mine, doing squats was enough pain to almost cause me to puke

Wow, it must be a little different then. This is such a dull, even pain. It does not get worse (so far) and it does not get better (so far). Maybe heavy squats would aggravate it, but I am not going to try it and find out until I know, or at least have a better idea of, what's wrong with it.

[Goin_Big]

Come on, be a man, do a 300 lb squat!!!!!

g'luck.

[NateDogg]

Thanks bro

[GIS]

Hey NateDogg...

I had the same problem when swimming... they did all kinds of CT scans and blood tests but it showed nothing. Basically it came down to inflamation andd there wasn't a whole lot they can do about it, but that doesn't mean we have/had the same problem. The symptoms/location is the same though. Alieve was my perscription, and time was the cure.

Also, if you see a physical therapist they have all kinds of weird exercises and stretches that might be able to help you out.

Along with time, strengthening my back helped A TON. In fact, all those little pops, snaps, and cracks that I had in my joints are pretty much gone now that I've added some muscle. I'm not saying do extensions with 100 pounds or deadlift 400 pounds, but I reccomend checking out a physical therapist. Chiropractors are something I've always tried to stay away from unless you have a good reference of know the person... a lot of them are scandelous and expensive.

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by GIS
Hey NateDogg...

I had the same problem when swimming... they did all kinds of CT scans and blood tests but it showed nothing. Basically it came down to inflamation andd there wasn't a whole lot they can do about it, but that doesn't mean we have/had the same problem. The symptoms/location is the same though. Alieve was my perscription, and time was the cure.

Also, if you see a physical therapist they have all kinds of weird exercises and stretches that might be able to help you out.

Along with time, strengthening my back helped A TON. In fact, all those little pops, snaps, and cracks that I had in my joints are pretty much gone now that I've added some muscle. I'm not saying do extensions with 100 pounds or deadlift 400 pounds, but I reccomend checking out a physical therapist. Chiropractors are something I've always tried to stay away from unless you have a good reference of know the person... a lot of them are scandelous and expensive.

Thanks GIS,

Yeah, as with most people I would venture to guess, I hesitate to go to any health professional for the reasons I mentioned above. I am doing more ab and low back work, reasonably of course. Nothing makes it hurt worse, but nothing has made it better thus far either. I am friends with a few PT's so I might start with them.

[Goin_Big]

Well, if it does happen to be like mine, I never really found out what it was except for the fact that it had swelling. It took a long time to go away on it's own, and now it's getting better do to the miracle of hyperextensions. I'm even dl'ing again, woohoo.

But you should still get it checked

[Chesticles]

I have a pain in my lower back as well. I went and got a bone scan done and I have a broken bone that can't be fixed. It's an old injury from grade 4!

[heathj]

My lower back has pain also....uggh... Delphi, you asked him if he sits for a long time or when he gets out of a car, if it hurts? Well, mine does, if I do those things...I need to see a doctor soon. Nate, maybe when one of us does something, we can help the other out

[DcK]

Originally posted by GIS
Hey NateDogg...

Chiropractors are something I've always tried to stay away from unless you have a good reference of know the person... a lot of them are scandelous and expensive.

Ouch! As a chiro, I must admit that hurts. But, I can't dispute it, many are too expensive and you have to be very selective, all chiro's are not created equally. I agree with you guys above, make sure the doc does take some x-rays, gives you straight feedback and honest answers, takes the time to really explain what the hell's going on and what may have caused it, make sure he's willing to give you a custom stretching/exercising program that you can do on your own, maybe some tractioning (if needed) you can do on your own, and make sure he doesn't just crack every single bone in your body from the base of your skull to the bottom of your feet!

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by DcK


Ouch! As a chiro, I must admit that hurts. But, I can't dispute it, many are too expensive and you have to be very selective, all chiro's are not created equally. I agree with you guys above, make sure the doc does take some x-rays, gives you straight feedback and honest answers, takes the time to really explain what the hell's going on and what may have caused it, make sure he's willing to give you a custom stretching/exercising program that you can do on your own, maybe some tractioning (if needed) you can do on your own, and make sure he doesn't just crack every single bone in your body from the base of your skull to the bottom of your feet!

Well, I did go to a doc, he checked me out, then suggested x-rays. I am waiting on the results of the x-rays. Anyone know of a good resource, online or otherwise, I could use to find a reputable chiro, or physical therapist of needed?

[DcK]

Originally posted by NateDogg


Well, I did go to a doc, he checked me out, then suggested x-rays. I am waiting on the results of the x-rays. Anyone know of a good resource, online or otherwise, I could use to find a reputable chiro, or physical therapist of needed?

Sorry Bro, don't know anyone in central MA. I quit recommending referrals unless I actually personally know them.

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by DcK


Sorry Bro, don't know anyone in central MA. I quit recommending referrals unless I actually personally know them.

Understood.

[NateDogg]

UPDATE: (also posted in my journal)

Well, I think I am off to a new doctor as soon as possible. The following is my conversation with the doc's office from today...

Doc's office: "Your x-rays showed very minor scoliosis, but it does not matter because you are done growing."
Me: "Ok, well what do I do now as it is still bothering me."
Doc's office: "What did the doctor tell you to do."
Me: "Nothing, just to go and get an x-ray."
Doc's office: *perplexed voice* "Well, ok, just...um...take an anti-inflammatory, ice it when it hurts and wear a belt."
Me: Ah...ok, thanks.

I was doing all that already, except for wearing the belt, which I will start to do on near max lifts if I ever get up that "high" again, and I told them so when I went in.

Is there anything that this may be that would not show up on an x-ray? I'll repost this on my back pain thread in general health as well. delphi?

LATER,

NateDogg

[NateDogg]

Originally posted by heathj
My lower back has pain also....uggh... Delphi, you asked him if he sits for a long time or when he gets out of a car, if it hurts? Well, mine does, if I do those things...I need to see a doctor soon. Nate, maybe when one of us does something, we can help the other out

Hey Heathj,

I totally missed your post before, sorry! Bumpin' this for delphi for yourself and I.

[Delphi]

I can give you my personal experience with this. I'm almost certain I have a herniated lumbar disk. When I lean forward too much at a time, I get this nagging pain and tightness at the same exact place, to the right of the spine. Eventually the spinal erectors at that area tight up. I can't stand up without pushing my hands against my thighs, or holding on to some furniture. These motions take some of the strain off the erectors. If I sit in a car for 30-40 minutes, my back is very tight and it is difficult to stand up. Once I've walked around a minute it's not so bad. Once my back messes up, I can gauge how bad the current injury is, by how difficult standing becomes. I've learned to gauge how long I'll be off lifting by how much of a problem standing is.

In general this soreness after sitting is due to the muscle being spastic and not wanting to relax. In my case I believe it's due to a bad disk. Other things that cause muscle spasticity could also do this. A pulled muscle could do it. I'm sure there's others.

DcK may have some more insight on this.

[NateDogg]

Thanks again Delphi,

Is that something that will ever completely heal?

I am going to get another doc to look at it, and lobby for an MRI. Oh yeah, and...bump for DcK's input.

[Delphi]

Depends on what you have. Muscle strains heal. Once a disk is herniated it doesn't go back to the way it used to be. You can still have periods of time without impingement symptoms, if you learn to avoid the activities that bring it on. In some people the herniation is so bad that they don't get these asymptomatic periods. Chris Mason posted in another thread that he was told in his late teens or twenties that he had a herniated disk. I don't know if he knows if he really has one or not. He can sure lift like a mofo at age 34 or whatever age he is, though.

[DcK]

Hey Nate, I'm moving, sorry not to hit you back sooner, but Delphi covered it. If it's disc herniation, MRI is generally best to diagnosis that, so do push for the test to rule it in or out, it won't show up on x-ray. Most disc's I've seen radiate down one leg or the other, but it doesn't have too!

If the x-rays were negative with the exception of a minor scoliosis, it could be a SI dysfunction or a postural hip distortion. I've yet to see a minor scoliosis where the pelvis was balanced, sometimes you balance the pelvis and the pain goes right away. How do you balance the pelvis? Well usually we use pelvic blocks with drop tables, a little muscle and myofascial work and your good to go w/some stretching and home exercises.

Also, it could be a facet syndrome. Does it hurt more when you hyper-extend the low back? Facet syndromes don't show up xrays real well either, but the treatment isn't too hard to correct.

One last thought on a disc herniation, they're no fun to treat. Only thing I've found that can help, sometimes, is a technique called "Vax-D," and also another technique called "Flexion/Distraction." Sometimes those will help, otherwise your looking at shots or surgery if it gets too bad (which I don't think your anywhere near surgery yet.. not trying to scare you bro, just laying out some general options...)

Hope this helps, let us know what the MRI came back as! Good Luck.