no such thing as overtraining

[ryuage]

I dont remember where I read this but this guy said he didnt believe in overtraining... he was pretty big I think 6'1 240 natural and his goal was to be the biggest natural out there in the future. He said that there isn't overtraining there is only under feeding. he said with the proper nutrition,rest, adequate hydration, etc... you wouldn't overtrain and he did have quite some high volume... what is your guys opinion on this?

[DaCypher]

I think that for him personally that may be true (although I still think there is some type of limit). However, its very arrogant and usually incorrect to make assumptions and generalizations simply based on one's personal experiences. I have known several people (myself included) that have "overtrained" (by overtrained I mean stopped progressing) all while maintaining "proper nutrition,rest, adequate hydration, etc." Although, I do like how he stresses these other factors to be very important (because they are), I just don't like how he dismisses the whole idea of overtraining.

[nightop]

First off, that is a horrible generalization, as people are differnt and the factors affecting overtraining are varied. With that said, IMO physical/muscular overtraining occurs less often then people think... CNS overtraining (neuromuscular) is what DOES happen and IS REAL.... the nervous system is usually the first hurdle, not what our muscles can physcially handle (in most cases.. and IMO).

[zwarrior99]

Ya its mostly gentecially, really. Its up to the person those are the factors that you can control, and those could indeed prevent overtraining, but in general, its all on genetics and the person.

[ChrisH]

What is the actual definition of overtraining? I recently moved onto a 5 day routine, and I feel more tired throughout the day (not during workouts in the morning though) even though im getting enough sleep and lots of food. If overtraining is defined as 'slowing/stopping progress', then im not, because I kep making great gains. I seem to make better gains on a a 5 day routine opposed to a 3 day split (probably because im young).

[Spawn_X]

here we go again.

[DcK]

Originally posted by Spawn_X
here we go again.

LOL ....

[FuriousFerret]

Trust me, you can overtrain. He'd probably come back stronger if he took a few days off every few months.

[teen1216]

Here's a thought (not sayin I agree or disagree just something to be debated): There is no such thing as overtraining, just a lack of GPP and work capacity.

[nightop]

Originally posted by teen1216
Here's a thought (not sayin I agree or disagree just something to be debated): There is no such thing as overtraining, just a lack of GPP and work capacity.

GPP and work capacity are moreso in regard to physical/muscular overtraining.... Neural/CNS overtraining is very real... use near-maximal loads (90-95% of 1RM) for the exact same movement every week and watch your strength drop after as little as two weeks (some people it will take longer like six weeks to reach a state of neural overtraining because they might have had poor neuromuscular efficiency and fiber recruitment to begin with)... period.

[nate allan]

Originally posted by nightop


GPP and work capacity are moreso in regard to physical/muscular overtraining.... Neural/CNS overtraining is very real... use near-maximal loads (90-95% of 1RM) for the exact same movement every week and watch your strength drop after as little as two weeks (some people it will take longer like six weeks to reach a state of neural overtraining because they might have had poor neuromuscular efficiency and fiber recruitment to begin with)... period.

While i believe this to be true for most, I had an old training partner who would max out bench every week, yet he still made gains for months, he went from benching 205 to 345 in around 14 months , training flat bench with 90-100% twice a week for that period of time.

[nightop]

Originally posted by nate allan



While i believe this to be true for most, I had an old training partner who would max out bench every week, yet he still made gains for months, he went from benching 205 to 345 in around 14 months , training flat bench with 90-100% twice a week for that period of time.

wow, that is impressive and very surprising, I think its safe to say that is a very isolated case, as most of the russian and the current westside strength routines are built around the concept of CNS adaption. Nonetheless, real world application can greatly differ from what medicine/science deems as truth, your friend being a prime example. However, I think its safe to say once again that such a case is very uncommon.

[LAM]

as nightop stated there is more to overtraining then just the physical aspect.

anyone that doesn't believe in overtraining hasn't trained hard enough or long enough...

[Songsangnim]

First of all overtraining exists. Some people (like Mr. Allen's friend) can handle a very high volume. Some like myself can only handle low volume. If you make gains and continue to do so, you are not overtrained. But if you are not making gains, or backsliding, feel tired, and hate the thought of going to the gym, it is quite likely you are overtrained. If overtraining did not exist, then we could train all day, every day, and take all sets to failure and be ready to go again tomorrow.

[Spawn_X]

Originally posted by ExtremeAnabolic
If overtraining did not exist, then we could train all day, every day, and take all sets to failure and be ready to go again tomorrow.

...You mean you don't spend 5 hours at the gym everyday training the same muscle groups ??

[ryuage]

...Yo mean you don't spend 5 hours at the gym everyday training the same muscle groups ??

damn i thought everyone did haha

[body]

Originally posted by ryuage
I . He said that there isn't overtraining there is only under feeding.

so what supps is he selling?

its a good way to sell more supps.

[MonStar]

This kind of general assumption cannot be made I dont think. Training your entire body on a daily basis for example will lead to overtraining. Whether youre eating 10,000 calories a day and sleeping 12 hours or not. I mean your central nervous system can only take so much. We are all human.

[LiftAgain]

Originally posted by ryuage
I dont remember where I read this but this guy said he didnt believe in overtraining... he was pretty big I think 6'1 240 natural and his goal was to be the biggest natural out there in the future. He said that there isn't overtraining there is only under feeding. he said with the proper nutrition,rest, adequate hydration, etc... you wouldn't overtrain and he did have quite some high volume... what is your guys opinion on this?

Hmm... First the guys says there is no overtraining, just underfeeding and then he tells how to avoid overtraining by eating, drinking and resting enough.

I think he actually does believe in overtraining but uses some other word for it. And I bet he wouldn't have any trouble finding a volume that would freeze his progress, even with a lot of food and rest.

[LAM]

some people use the terms "overreaching" and "underrecovery" vs. "overtraining" the words used is pretty much moot. the fact is either way you are doing more than your body can handle at the present time...

[Accipiter]

I actually agree. While I think at some point your muscles have reached their limit and tendons will snap etc. I think that theoretically you could train everyday for a few hours, and sleep say 15 hours, and if your intake of nutrition was adequate you would not overtrain. Of course I would never try it, cause I'm PROBABLY wrong.

[puny_ectomorph]

Okay...I'm no expert, but I will give you my own experience. My first intro to bodybuilding was Schwarzenegger's Encylopedia of Modern Bodybuilding. Being the impressionable dolt I was, I decided his six-day-a-week blast-the-hell-out-of-everything routine was perfect for a 140 lb ecto like yours truly.

By the time I had slugged my way through two weeks, after eating horrendously, punching one bucketfull of water after another, and downing protein like it was going out of style, I woke up one morning and realized I was way too tired to make the effort to get out bed. And it stayed that way for a full week.

Thanks to that, I fell out of bodybuilding as quickly as I had fallen in. One year later, I am just now beginning to work my way back in, using WBB routine #1. It's tough to think a 3-day split will make the gains one expects. I do know that I will stick with it much longer.

IMO.

-puny

[benchmonster]

Please don't take anyone seriously who says there is no such thing as overtraining. I have read that stupid crap as well. It is a pathetic attempt at motivational speaking/typing.

Like saying I think I can, I think I can. . .

You don't grow or get stronger while you are training. For the short term, training actually has a negative effect on both growth and strength. Don't beleive me? Think about this:

When could you bench more? On your way into the gym, prior to training? Or after you have trained for an hour and maxed out on your bench and then on skull crushers?

No brainer, right? You could lift more on the way in. A weight you could do fresh would crush you when you have just trained. Do you think you weigh more on the way into the gym, or on the way out?

I personally sweat like Hillary Clinton in a church. I definately do not weigh as much after a workout as I do before one. It is not a big difference, maybe a pound, or so, but it is there.

You get bigger and stronger during the time you are recovering from your workouts, not during the workouts themselves. Therefore logic would dictate, that if you are training too hard, too often, and not giving yourself a chance to recover, then you will most definately be overtraining.

B.

[Delphi]

Good points, BenchMonster.

Good post, puny_ectomorph. Love your name. Welcome to WBB.

[puny_ectomorph]

Appreciate the welcome, Delphi.

-puny