Non-progress pics...why do I suck? (long)

[Madd Hatter]

The before pics are 4 or 5 months old, the current pics are after a bunch of traditional 3-day splits, and 1.5 HST cycles at the end. It will become obvious this isn't too show off, but to show the desperate need for help.
Back before:

Back now:

Front before:

Front now:

Chest before:

Chest now:

Legs then:


Legs now:



The only thing that's gotten bigger is my gut (I have pics of this too, but I thought I'd spare everyone). I'm 216 now, probably 190ish in the pics, and started at 175 a year ago when I started lifting.
Training: Like I said, I'm doing HST now, and if I do have any improvements, it's probably come from this. I don't know what else I can do or try that I haven't already. Two possible pitfalls that I can think of: 1)Believing that full ROM is essential, I wonder if sometimes I overdo it by going to lockout and staying there for a split second, then coming down too far (i.e. for bench, coming to upper arms parallel to floor), and taking the constant stress of 5/10/15 reps off the muscle group. 2) Lack of intensity/mental thing. I go in, I do my exercises with the applicable weights, but sometimes I'm not focusing on the movement and how I'm pulling, maybe this is a problem.
Diet: I don't follow a super-strict diet, yet I strive to eat a set list of food each day. This consists of:
-Two bowls of oatmeal with protein powder
-A full protein shake in two servings
(with my gut now, I'm using Optimum more than NLarge)
-Nat. PB toast on WW bread
-3 eggs, scrambled
-Quart+ of skim milk (just switched from Whole/2%)
-half a can of peas/corn
-2 cans of tuna
-plain turkey sub with 8-10 deli turkey slices on 8" french bread, with animal crackers (plain kind) because I can't eat that much plain sub alone
-6 spoonfuls of cottage cheese, maybe a PB bagel
Now, some days I don't get all this in, and every once in a while, I cheat and have a frozen pizza, or chocolate cake, or whatever. Three things that come to mind with diet: 1) I usually eat that big sub just a couple hours before bed 2) Too much sodium? 3) I need to ditch the cheat stuff? Is this not enough calories for bulking? I thought it might, yet I'm getting a huge gut. Is this enough protein? I thought it was.
Other: I've recently gone to the chiropractor, and have started treatment. My back is sorta f'd up, and I dunno if that could hinder progress (no pain or effect on training or anything, but they make you think your bad back might cause the sun not to rise).

There's more, but I think this is long enough. I would greatly appreciate any insight, and can post any add'l information on request.

[teen1216]

Quick comment: full range of motion on the bench press is when the bar touches your chest, not when your arms are parallel to the floor.

[thatdaveguy]

A few more facts needed - height, age specifically.
A few other quick thoughts:

do you eat immediatly after a workout?

Carb calories seem kinda low for a bulk - Im thinking you cheat a little more that you are telling us, specifically with high glycemic carbs (sugary)!

There are better carbs to eat than bread - the oatmeal is good but add some pasta, rice, and potato's. My initial guess is that your body is using lots of the protine as fuel since you dont really have a lot of carbs in your diet, this may be why your muscle gain is minimal.

[Bam Bam]

theres a few shots that you looked low in bf% keep at it man btw before rock or cent say it . Its painfully obvious you have a small jimmy j/k

[Songsangnim]

Originally posted by teen1216
Quick comment: full range of motion on the bench press is when the bar touches your chest, not when your arms are parallel to the floor.

This is SO wrong. A full range of motion is when your arms are parallel to the floor. An excessive range of motion is when the bar touches your chest. Several doctors I have talked to over the years about weightlifting also support this position. For someone with short arms and a big chest, they may be able to get away with it...touching the bar to their chest. But for someone who has long arms and average chest, that is an excessive range of motion, and will lead to shoulder damage. Full ROM depends on the individual's limitations, not on some preconceived notion of what is full ROM. tuttut

[scruples]

full ROM on bench press is bar to chest.

[eclips1]

I touch my chest with the bar on flat bench. I'm 6'1" with long arms. I consider this an excesive ROM. I rarely do shoulder presses because they work so hard on my bench. Box out, arms parallel to the ground is a full ROM and all you need to work your chest. Go deeper if you choose, but like EA said, you risk injury more by doing so.

[Madd Hatter]

Originally posted by thatdaveguy
A few more facts needed - height, age specifically.
A few other quick thoughts:

do you eat immediatly after a workout?

6'2", 24. I take an NLarge shake in the locker room, or failing that, oatmeal with powder and eggs/toast back at home.

You may have something with the carb idea. I dunno how often I can do pasta or potatoes, as I can't frickin cook, but maybe rice. When I go to the store, what variations of these do I want to stay away from?

[LAM]

"I usually eat that big sub just a couple hours before bed"

and you are wondering why you are getting a gut ?

[mmac]

I think the most important part to look in to is your workouts. Are you lifting hard? Maybe you need to lift harder, then again, maybe softer. With a phyisque like yours which I would say is pretty average, it shouldnt take much to make it grow. In my opinion if you eat a few hundred more calories then needed even if the stuff is 1/2 good for you, you will grow. Only when you get to a level with more muscle, less fat will your diet start becoming more of a factor. The reason I ask about the gym is because if you were getting too many calories/day in 4-5 months you should be growing. If you werent getting enough calories/day you would be shrinking. I mean something would happen, you wouldnt stay the same. Right?

Another important thing I think is to feel at least a little bit of soreness the day after you lift.(sometimes even more soreness the day after the day after) I have been lifting for about 3 months now really hard and I still feel soreness and I am sure the guys here that have been lifting for 3 years still do too.


In conclusion. Keep it simple. Go and work your butt off at the gym. Eat good meals throughout the day. And sleep. Rinse, repeat.

[smalls]

A sub a few hours before bed WILL NOT make you fat unless what you are eating throughout the entire day puts you in a caloric surplus. Which I think is the problem, he is just eating too many cals, obviously he is bulking, but he is probably gaining too fast. I eat 5 minutes before bed when cutting or bulking, and I have no problem losing bodyfat.

Also bread isnt that bad, just make sure its really whole wheat, and choose sweat potatoes and brown rice.

Also I think you probably started bulking at too high a bodyfat, and therefore can't see you progress as well.

Regardless, dont get too down on yourself and continue to learn and progress.

[Big4Wrestling]

You look the same at 215 as 190. This means that you gained an equal amount of muscle and fat. Lose the extra fat and you will see the progress you made.

[btougher]

i think u need to do lots of fat burnin before hittin the weights seriously.. i happen to know a huge guy who benches 115 # aside easily but looks just plain ol fat to me..he's ****in strong all right but looks just plain ol fat to me

[LAM]

Originally posted by smalls
A sub a few hours before bed WILL NOT make you fat unless what you are eating throughout the entire day puts you in a caloric surplus.

that is not exactly true. if the sub is high carb what exactly do you think is going to happen to all of those complex carbs once they are metabolized and liver glycogen stores are full ?

[-sin-]

How much did your lifts go up in that 4 or 5 months? This is the reason I don't take progress pics or measure each body part. I measure my progress by how much weight I add to my lifts. Im not saying its a bad idea, but unless you've made huge gains you're not really going to notice a difference looking at a picture. The way I see it anyone that does 500lb squats or 300lb bench for reps is obviously going to have big arms and legs. Therefore if I just focus on my lifts and eat a lot my body will come into its own.

[Berserker]

I'd like to hear more about bench ROM. I go below parellal if I didn't there wouldn't be much movement. I am short with long arms. I have had pain in the lower part of a bench. Not sure either way.

Also like somebody else said did your lifts go up? I don't show alot in the mirror, more in my journal.

[PrinterPaper]

Your legs look like they have progressed somewhat significantly.

[Songsangnim]

Originally posted by scruples
full ROM on bench press is bar to chest.

No. How many times do I have to say this? That is an excessive ROM, not a full ROM. A full ROM is elbows to the bench you are lying on. Going lower than that increases the risk of injury. Plus with the elbows to the bench you can go slightly below or above in order to fit safety pins in. If you go to the chest every time, you can't always use safety pins. Your chest level could be between two settings for example. So it is also safer. Where is this iron-clad rule that a full ROM is bar to chest? If you can do it that way and suffer no pain, more power to you. But to the longer-limbed trainee, that IS excessive. Stop arguing with the facts. Even most of the people on this board who post about this agree with me.
Don't just disagree. Give me a reasoned argument. tuttut

[Songsangnim]

Originally posted by Berserker
I'd like to hear more about bench ROM. I go below parellal if I didn't there wouldn't be much movement. I am short with long arms. I have had pain in the lower part of a bench. Not sure either way.

Also like somebody else said did your lifts go up? I don't show alot in the mirror, more in my journal.

Yes, your lifts do go up. However that is due more to the reason you are starting from above what is typically the sticking point for most trainees which is the bottom position of the press. I typically bring it to about three inches off my chest, which is below parallel, but I am not experiencing the pain I did, when I brought it to chest level. Parallel is NOT an iron-clad rule, but is more of a rule-of thumb, which can be adjusted somewhat. Some people can bench to the chest and feel no pain. That's fine, I have no argument with that. What I do have a beef with, is people who insist that benching to the chest is the only way, the Holy Way and anything else is blasphemy. Just as one size does not fit all, so do some exercises not fit all, and so do some ROMS not fit all.

[Madd Hatter]

Thanks for the replies. My lifts going up is a tricky question. And one that makes me wonder about intensity/focus. For the most part they haven't, don't know if that's because I CAN'T lift more or just THINK I can't lift more (going solo without a net doesn't help matters). Like I said, that's one good thing about HST, I'm telling myself I have to lift x amount of weight.

Even I have to admit my legs have grown, yes. Most of my pants are tight around my quads as well as my waist.

If I want to slim down, how specifically should I modify my diet? Will the pounds start coming down just from the milk and powder changes?

One more thing I forgot to mention... 98% of the time I workout first thing after I get up (hour after first meal). Usually I have no choice because of my work schedule, but I like it that way because I think that's when I'm gonna do my best (I stand all frickin day at work). So the bulk of what I eat comes after my workout. Would this have anything to do with it?

[scruples]

Originally posted by ExtremeAnabolic


No. How many times do I have to say this? That is an excessive ROM, not a full ROM. A full ROM is elbows to the bench you are lying on. Going lower than that increases the risk of injury. Plus with the elbows to the bench you can go slightly below or above in order to fit safety pins in. If you go to the chest every time, you can't always use safety pins. Your chest level could be between two settings for example. So it is also safer. Where is this iron-clad rule that a full ROM is bar to chest? If you can do it that way and suffer no pain, more power to you. But to the longer-limbed trainee, that IS excessive. Stop arguing with the facts. Even most of the people on this board who post about this agree with me.
Don't just disagree. Give me a reasoned argument. tuttut

what is your argument?

my personal opinion is that people who do fake ROM bench press like you suggest also think that quarter squats are cool -- just because the amount of weight they can move is greater... pretty pathetic...

suck it up, learn proper bench form, and do the whole movement, not just a pussy half-movement...

[smalls]

LAM, They will be used throughout the night and stored in muscle glycogen.

If I ate 2000 cals throughout the day then I had 1000 cals of mostly carbs RIGHT before bed I would lose weight EXTREMELY fast.

I see where you are coming from but you gain too much fat from eating TOO high above maintanence not from eating before bed.

[eclips1]

It is now clear Scruples that u have no basis for your argument. You give no reasoning for what you say besides "people who do fake ROM bench press like you suggest also think that quarter squats are cool -- just because the amount of weight they can move is greater... pretty pathetic...". If you studied proper bench form and how to maximize the stress on your pecs you might know something about the benefits of limiting your ROM and what a full and excesive ROM is. I bench with the bar to my chest, and realize this is past the range of motion to work my pecs optimally. I'm bringing other muscles more into play to complete my bench.

All in all...Lift how you want, but please don't come on this board and tell others whats what, and how they should lift especially if you don't know what your talking about.

[eclips1]

Originally posted by smalls
LAM, They will be used throughout the night and stored in muscle glycogen.

If I ate 2000 cals throughout the day then I had 1000 cals of mostly carbs RIGHT before bed I would lose weight EXTREMELY fast.

I see where you are coming from but you gain too much fat from eating TOO high above maintanence not from eating before bed.

I think your metabolism burns faster and slower depending on when you consume fuel and also how often you eat. If you eat 2000 cals on a cutting diet, you will loose more weight spreading those cals throughout the day evenly and consuming most of your carbs earlier in the day and not at night, then you would consuming 1000 of those cals with 100 carbs 5 min before bed. Your metabolism will be slowest at night.

[_-_v_-_]

Scruples, please change your title.