After having a talk with a guy from my gym last night, named Chris Morris, who is an extremely experienced powerlifter, I figured I would bring this up here at WBB.
He talked about Westside and powerlifting and the ups and downs of the sport, etc. He has competed in the 198 lbs. class and pull 700, benched 440, and squatted 600. These are all in a powerlifting meet. Guy was friggin' strong as hell.
Anyway, some points that he made to me that seemed to be different than what I have read from www.elitefts.com.
- Keeping your hips low during sumo deadlifts. He supported this notion 100%. He said when guys lower their hips their deadlift usually blows up. He said my DL looked like a SLDL, and I was rounding my back. However, Dave Tate says that your hips should stay high.
- He said for lats pullups pullups and more pullups. Overhand and underhand. He said rows are pretty good too, but pullups are best by far. This was different than what is recommended in Westside. Youre always supposed to row in the same plane as your bench.
- He said NO bodybuilding exercises. No flyes, or anything like that. He said that he does JM presses, lockouts, etc. And the guy had a physique like a bodybuilder---only his traps were MASSIVE.
Opinions Stagg, Latty, benchmonster, Adam, Saturday Fever, etc.?
His advice doesn't contradict Tate's.
If you look like you are doing an SLDL, your hips are coming up first. Keep them down by lookingup and pulling BACK. Keep the bar in front of your shoulders.
Tate's point is that lots of people try to get their hips too low, that's not the same as not having them come up first.
(I have the same issue with my deadlift)
Westside suggests both vertical and horizontal pulling, with an emphasis on horizontal. I don't think it really matters all that much, but do think you should include both. I've taken to doing a pullup, chin, or pull down on one bench day, and a row on the other, with lots of rear delt work.
I agree, keep the isolation stuff like flyes to a minimum. Of course, he's probably talking from the perspective of an equipped lifter. someone who lifts raw might benefit from a bit more direct chest work, although my focus would be on DB pressing, not flyes.
Sounds to me like you have a good resource there. Just because some of what he says might not be exactly what someone else says doen't mean either is wrong. He's found what works for him. You need to take his advice, combine it with what you've learned elsewhere, and figure out what works for YOU.
Your lifts look good. You should do a meet.
Squats work better than supplements.
"You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
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LOL, I doubt I will ever do a meet. Simply because I enjoy training for strength, but not competitively at all. I dont know why. Anyway, thanks for the kind words about my lifts.
Good post BTW Paul. I can kind of see what youre saying man. About my friggin' hips going up too soon. As soon as I start the pull my hips go straight up. I dont know why, I cant help it it feels like. I am REALLY going to try and focus on looking up at the ceiling, and pulling the weight back. I also need to focus on NOT rounding my back. I think that might be a problem. Who knows.
Dave Tate says in his article that it's not uncommon to see someone deadlift and look like a SLDL. He also says that isn't incorrect. He also says that he isn't saying try to SLDL everything. More food for thought.
And be careful pulling back. It is correct to do, but with lighter weights, I've pulled back too hard and fell over. Very embarrassing and could have hurt me.
Damn, SF, you pulled back and fell over? That is nuts man, seriously. I will have to be careful. I definitely know that I will have to be now. Anyway I am just going to try and keep my hips a little lower at the start of the DL. Just to get the weight off the floor and not round my back, etc. Well see what happens. Damn I would love to hit 600 by summer. That would be NUTS!
So you plan on adding 100lbs to your dead in a few months?
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ElPietro: I didnt say I planned to. I said it would nice if I did, since my technique is really off right now. Really informative post EP, thanks a lot man.
Well I agree. If his form sucks now and he corrects it. I would think he could get a large increase in his 1RM DL. Just my $.02
Current Stats --------------- Training Goals: Improve athletic conditioning.
Squat - 305lbs - 1/23/06 ----- 335
Deadlift - 415lbs - 2/4/06 ---- 435
Bench - 90s*7 ----------------- 100s*5
Weight - 208 ------------------ 190
Height - 5'10"
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Oh yeah eric, thats true with almost everyone I would say. With pullups when one of my friends learned to pull with his lats and not his biceps, his strength went through the roof. Flawless technique, especially in deadlift I think, is a necessity.
Yeah, I was pulling 225. The weight never feels heavy until I get around 300. So I pulled hard and back and the weight came up quicker than I was expecting, and over I went. Instead of worrying about your hips, worry about increasing the strength of your lower back. This will stop the rounding. Then start pulling back. This will put your hips in a place most would be happy with.
SF- I did that yesterday with like 275 on the bar or so. I didn't fall down, but I pulled back so hard that I lost my balance and had to take a big step to regain it. Good thing that doesn't happen with the heavy stuff.
I agree with Pauly's post.
Best Meet Lifts(Raw):
@165- 430(w/wraps) SQ 260 BE 560 DL.....1250 total
@181- 470(w/wraps) SQ 285 BE 565 DL.....1320 total
Best Meet Lifts(Multi-ply):
@148- 575 SQ 315 BE 515 DL.....1400 total
@165- 680 SQ 380 BE 540 DL.....1555 total
@181- 700 SQ 375 BE 535 DL.....1605 total
Best Gym Lifts(Raw)
455(w/wraps) SQ 275 BE 545 DL