I'm cutting. Should I still have cheatdays every weekend?

[Ironman8]

My weekly caloric intake is gonna be around 2000. Should I still have cheatdays on the weekend? I heard this will kick up my metabolism, but will it also hinder the results. Thanks in advance.

[heathj]

If you feel it will be necessary so you don't cheat during the week, but for the best results, I'd say stay as strict as possible. A cheat day once per week won't be bad though.

[Scythian_Blade]

Structure it as a timed refeed. Not as a cheat day. Your terminology is off =D

[Severed Ties]

Originally posted by heathj
A cheat day once per week won't be bad though.

You've never seen one of my cheat days.:evillaugh


ST

[heathj]

Haha, ok, a cheat day for ST is allowed once per year.

[Shao-LiN]

Originally posted by Ironman8
My weekly caloric intake is gonna be around 2000. Should I still have cheatdays on the weekend? I heard this will kick up my metabolism, but will it also hinder the results. Thanks in advance.

I'm sure you mean your daily caloric intake and not weekly, hehe. Anyway, if you feel you need it to keep you sane, then go for it. If you can stand doing without one, then don't have one. It's up to you.

[EdgeCrusher]

Yeah, if you lose weight, keep doing it.

[steveo]

Cheats days are good. Depend how serious you are and how limited in time. If I'm cutting just to loose some extra fat I would cheat if I were preparing for a show I would only cheat once a month if I had to, but if I was still saine I wouldn't.

[ectx]

I'd say have a cheat day every other week. Another possibility is to have a cheat meal or two on the weekends. I sometimes do that. Actually I just started a cut, and have 2 cheat meals on Sunday of odd weeks and 1 cheat day on Sunday of even weeks. What's worked best for me in the past has been every two weeks though. I honestly don't think it's a bad Idea to keep one in there, perhaps just limit it like I suggested. It would probably have a beneficial effect on your leptin levels and get things kicking for you.

[Ironman8]

Cool. Thanks for the response guys!

[gino]

I always incorporate one cheat day each week while cutting. I think they are beneficial on many different levels.

[BennettBoy]

Even preparing for a show I have a cheat meal (not day) 1-2 times a week. Helps keep me sane.

[Severed Ties]

Originally posted by heathj
Haha, ok, a cheat day for ST is allowed once per year.

guess we shouldn't talk about those two sleeves of oreo's I ate before bed last saturday...or the saturday before....or even the one before.....and that was just a "light" snack....I hate sleeping on a full stomach.:evillaugh


ST

[heathj]

fatty. oreos do sound good though. oreos and milk, damn, haven't had those in forever!

[Severed Ties]

Originally posted by heathj
fatty

Actually I'm dieting but my experiments with macro manipulation are far exceeding my expectations.

[carolinagirl]

Originally posted by Severed Ties


Actually I'm dieting but my experiments with macro manipulation are far exceeding my expectations.

Hmmm. ST, you interest me.


Care to elaborate?

[Severed Ties]

Sure carolinegirl, as I've said in the past calories in do NOT equal calories out. I know this shatters people's fragile little world but until they get over this concept they will never maximize their bodies potential.

Currently I'm burning stored bodyfat at a much faster rate than expected. My scale weight was dropping far to fast for my liking as actual "weight loss" during a diet is something I try to minimize. To compensate for this and help keep proper leptin levels and throid production I added a refeed day...which later due to some unexpected results turned into a cheat like hell day.


ST

[carolinagirl]

What kind of macro breakdowns are you doing? (And what's your refeed schedule? 1/week? Your bf isn't that high, is it?)

[Severed Ties]

My overall macro breakdowns are 40/25/35 pro/carb/fat but these numbers are manipulated into different ratio's thoughout the day as you must eat to properly manipulate insulin levels and glycogen stores to meet your activity level.

My refeed is 1/week....every saturday. If I had to estimate my average caloric intake for the day I'd say between 5-6K but I've gone as high as 8K. Gotta keep trying things to keep learning.

I started dieting around 15%...my bodyfat I'm guessing is around 10% based on the amount of definition I have compared to what 10% look like on me in the past. It's hard to say exactly as more LBM will make you look leaner....but I can get back into my 29"w jeans....at my absolute leanest I can get into a boys size 16 if they are very baggy.


ST

[Isaac Wilkins]

ST,

As cgirl would say, you're interesting me strangely.

So when you say altering the macros throughout the day, you're along the lines of:

Meal 1: 40/30/30 p/f/c

Meal 2: 25/25/50 p/f/c

Meal 3: 50/30/20 p/f/c

etc?

I obviously yanked those numbers out of the air, but is this what you speak of?

I'm verging on attempting to pick your brain a little.

[carolinagirl]

ST - your plan sounds very similar to what I'm doing. I'm really interested in manipulating the endocrine responses to food as well.

For you to only need 1 refeed a week at 10% is pretty darn good - your setpoint must be fairly low then. I think I must be getting below my setpoint right now, because I'm needing them about every 4 days, and I'm at about 20%.


I'd love to hear more details about how you monkey with your ratios to manipulate insulin throughout the day. (I would assume that insulin responses would be targeted around workouts and potentially in M1, and the rest of the day would be kept to a minimum?)

Also, what's your position on the pre/post workout nutrition debate? Lately I've been leaning towards the pre- and during-workout shake with the high GI carbs and rapidly assimilated proteins, then doing low-GI and slow proteins for post-workout. But I'm not absolutely 100% convinced that this is ideal.

(I'm a little of a nutrition geek - sorry!)

[Isaac Wilkins]

*rubs hands together*

Now this is getting good.

My take on pre/post workout is this: I try to take a shake (fast protein and high GI carbs) pre-workout, and post-workout.

I like this for several reasons:

-I believe this is most efficient as far as repair/replenishment: Nutrients are available immediately upon request.

-Because of the immediate nutrient supplies, one takes best advantage of the test spike that intense training generates.

-It allows me to enjoy high GI carbs twice per day, and helps get in a little more protein (I'm shooting for like 350 grams here, folks).

Here's a question that you should have the answer to: Does repair of muscles begin IMMEDIATELY upon reaction to stimulus? I realize that it will be ******ed by further exercise, but does the body start repairing once the first damage is done (set one or two to failure, perhaps), or is the whole repair process stalled by the trauma until after the workout is completed and stress is removed? If this is the case, my point #2 is false.

[Severed Ties]

Something like that, I'm like a sponge for info...so over the years I've read so many different things about when your body needs different nutrient and what will happen to them inside the body given different scenario's.

I ran into a problem this year as I out grew my old diet...literally...what had worked in the past will simply no longer work at my size. So unless I'm willing to shrink to a previous size or use a chemical solution I had to rethink my stratagy. I did not like either choice so I went back to the drawing board.

I few year ago I saw a problem with the idea of a daily caloric intake...because simply put their is no such thing to you body. Your body needs fuel for activity and about a billion processes we are not even aware it's preforming. However I needed some kind of target to plan my meals around so I decided to work with a total weekly caloric intake and deficet. This was a step in the right direction but it allowed for zero cheating, which created other problems. What I messed up on was targeting my meal on any caloric intake rather than an activity level.

So rather than go bigger I should have gone smaller with time frames. If I need to eat for an activity level I can't think in terms of days but rather in terms of hours. If I know from research what my body will do with different nutrients logically it makes the most sense to eat the optimal nutrients for what I will be doing until my next meal.


ST

[Isaac Wilkins]

VERY interesting, and very plausible.

So your intake varies upon activity level.

How do you account for different gastric emptying/digestion and metabolizing times? Is this just another variable to factor in for meal selection?

[Severed Ties]

Carolinagirl my bodies set point or comfort point is around 17% that is the exact bodyfat I will hang around if I don't do regular cardio and watch my diet. I've had 3 injuries in the past from contracting jobs or grappling so each time I was forced to take a 2 month layoff...each time I found myself back at the 17% range or worse. I'm very much an endomorph so I store fat easily which is what has made my results so suprising. I also keep track of my own hormonal ranges so I know my t-3 levels could be better which doesn't help trying to remain lean.



Right now I advocate post workout nutrition. I do use a pre-workout meal but I'm still working on what macronutrients combinations are optimal here.


Borris

I think HIT is an excellent training style as one set is all you need if you can get the job done. However I've come to be a firm believer that the majority of people do not posses the both physical and mental ability (pain threshold, CNS recruitment..ect) to truely get the job done in one set. The body has an incredible ability to work far beyond what the brain will try to allow it and I've only seen very few people who can achieve near total physical failure from one set.

That said I am a firm believer in intensity above all. I can only train to complete physical failure for brief periods of time because of joint pain so I train with volume for most the year. You will find very few sets in my routine that do not include something to carry me a bit past mental failure....not physical. I usually start with forced reps, then go to drop sets, finished with super or giant sets. I do not in any way believe a body part can begin to recover no matter what macronutrients are available if you are hammering that part away with such successive sets. The exact point in which anabolism exceeds catabolism can take anywhere from 24 hours to as little as 30 minutes from what I've seen tested.

I believe this is what has made insulin so popular in bodybuilding because this recovery time can be cut even further using exogeneous fast acting insulin.


ST