New Routine (Paul Stagg)...and others

[Cackerot69]

Monday-Pull

Deadlift-3x6
weighted pull ups-2x4-8
row-2x6-8
BB curl-2x6-8
leg curl-2x4-6
shrug-2x6-8

Thursday-Push

Squat-3x6
incline DB press -ss- incline flye-2x4-8
flat DB press -ss- flat DB flye-2x4-8
military press-2x6-8
weighted dips-2x6-8
calf raise-2x8-12
static hold-1x30 seconds

i think most of your know my position. i've been training a little over a year, made some good gains. i know how to diet, i know how to train...but this ultra low volume training is entirely new to me, meaning - i've never tried it.

my stats:

5'9
148lbs
12.2% bodyfat

i normally do a push/pull/legs routine...about 6-8 sets for large parts, 4 sets for medium, and 2-3 for small. the only thing that seems to be progressing well on this is chest (in terms of muscle growth)...that is the reason for me keeping my chest routine - its working extremely well.

Goal:

weight gain. i'm hoping to gain at least 20lbs by June, i know this is a lofty goal, but i believe its possible. as long as my bf% doesn't go above 15% i don't care about adding bodyfat. my diet is good.

i'm just looking for your opnions on me using this kind of routine, and if you have used something similar - your results.

[chris mason]

You sure are cocky for 148 lbs soaking wet! That being said I will throw in my 2 cents. Don't do the leg curls on Monday because between them and deadlifts you will not be sufficiently recovered by Thursday for your squats. Personally, I would skip the deads and do the leg curls after the squats on Thursday. Deadlifts are a good exercise, but not as good as most of you seem to think. I think squats are more important than deadlifts and that doing both in your routine is redundant and unnecessary. Next, on your push day you have 3 exercises that really work the chest/delt/triceps very hard. That is too much. Incline dumbell presses, flat dumbell, and dips all work the body in a very similar fashion. Why don't you skip the flat dumbell presses. I would replace those with french presses done after the dips. Otherwise I think that looks like a really good routine. One last thing, don't worry about training on exactly Monday and Thursday, if you are ready to train again Sunday then by all means do. Choose your rest days by how you feel, not by the calendar.

[Adam]

I think this routine looks good. I would keep both the squat and the deadlift though. i imagine 3 days would be enough recovery between the 2 lifts, and deadlifts are the largest pulling movement that you can do so I think that they fit good into the routine. Like Chris said though on your pushing day you may find all the tri/delt/chest exercises hard after a while. If you have to just drop one of the exercises and that should be fine. I would also add one or two sets of ab work in the pulling day too.

[Cackerot69]

ok, i'm dropping the flat press and flye superset. adding lying tricep press. i forgot about abs, love the ab wheel...i will do 2 sets of those. keeping the deads.

"You sure are cocky for 148 lbs soaking wet!"

who said anything about me being soaking wet? LOL.

[chris mason]

What about the leg curls? Just out of curiousity, what do you think the deadlifts will do for you?

[Cackerot69]

deadlifts are the king of pulling exercises...they will help me get bigger and stronger! they are among the best exercises you can do, second only to squats.

in conclusion, help me add a lot of muscle and strength to my body!

what do you think squats do for you?

[Adam]

im not cackerot but ill answer the dead question. They will build alot of core strenth and are what "I" consider as good as squats. They will build strong spinal erectors and good leg power(not the full ROM though). They will also build up good forarms which alot of people lack and improved grip for other exercises. They can build very good traps and a strong abdominal wall too.

[Chris Rodgers]

Originally posted by chris mason
What about the leg curls?

The almighty leg curl! How could someone 148 lbs leave them out of a routine. And to think he wanted to do deadlifts instead!


Bwahahahahaha!

[MWB]

Cack-have you read about the new routine on wannabebig, training the whole body hard once every 3 days or so? I'm kind of interested in this one.

[Anthony]

I'm interested in hearing why deadlifts aren't that great.

[Behemouth]

i'm with getin bigger on this one. they are one of the best movements you can do. they increase your core strength grately. if you space them out right you will have plenty of time to recover for your squats and vice versa. or you could just alternate them and do them every second week

[chris mason]

Deadlifts are fine, but they are redundant in most cases. Your upper body (forearms, lats, traps etc.) get plenty of specific work on their days. If you perform squats, which are superior to deadlifts for developement of the legs and glutes (biggest muscles in the body) they will also train your lower back. Your spinal erectors get trained in almost all movements you perform and get hit especially hard by squats. If one performs both squats and deadlifts in their routine (especially on separate days), I feel the lower back will be overtrained. If you are a powerlifter then you must perform them in season at a minimum. If you are a bodybuilder, squats combined with upper body movements will make you as big as you please thank you! I have also noticed that both Cack and Latman who seemed to find my opinion bogus and deadlifts to be the "be all" are both 160 lbs or less. I have done very little deadlifting in my day and have made quite good gains. When I was squatting my most, I could do deadlifts on any given day with no training and pull 545 x 3 reps on the deadlift. Now, you can't say that in the reverse because the deadlifts do not train the legs to nearly the same degree as squats. You will also notice that I NEVER laugh at anyone! I may say you are incorrect, but I never laugh at what are quite often laughable posts by others. One last thing, Behemouth's post was the most intelligent argument of the bunch.

[Edited by chris mason on 02-02-2001 at 09:42 PM]

[Anthony]

I agree with what you said ... I don't do normal deads, but I still think they respectable as far as compound movements are concerned. I do use SLDL in my routine, and consider it the second most important lift. I've yet to experience anything that makes my hams respond as well.

[Maki Riddington]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

The erectors are isometrically contracted in the squat to stabilize the trunk along with other muscles.

[Chris Rodgers]

The only reason I laughed is because we are in your own words "148 pounds soakin wet". Why would you, who I have seen suggest routines built on compound exercises, be suggesting leg curls instead of deadlifts, argueably the best overall mass builder? I happen to love deadlifts and have noticed a big difference to my physique since I started doing them. Remember, when one of us little guys gains a few pounds of muscle it makes a bigger difference than on someone as big as you.


I just want to remind you, we all start somewhere. You are a very knowledgeable guy with plenty of experience. Don't pull the "this guy only weighs 150" crap on any of us. We're here to help each other, not knock are current stats. Thank you.

[Ronan]

Deadlifts are awesome, I am going to try and do them more often from now on.Thicken the back and hams second to none.

I agree that doing both deads and squats in the same week is too much work for the same muscles.

So one week deadlift on back day and leg press on leg day,
next week drop deadlifts on back day and squat on leg day,


Whats your veiw on this schedule Chris Mason?

[Joe Black]

I think the advice people have given you is great..

I perform deadlifts and squats both in the same week..

In fact deadlifts on a Sunday and legs on a Tuesday and I seem to get a long fine..

Ronan's ideas sounds cool

Good luck !

[The_Chicken_Daddy]

I personally think deads are superior to squats.

My deadlift is increasing significantly, and this week i couldn't squat cause i was still sore.

I was already considering ronan's idea before he posted it!

I think thats what Gino does...

[chris mason]

Latman, if "we are all here to help each other" then don't laugh at the opinion of others. I personally don't take kindly to it. If you laugh at me, I will be happy to point out your weaknesses. I believe firmly in my opinion on the subject, but I think that Behmouth's and Ronan's ideas would do fine as well. Mac, a LOT of people use the spinal erectors as an actively involved muscle and not just a "stabilizer". I know this is considered "dangerous", but even quite a few powerlifters use this technique. The style used in the squat depends a lot on unique individual anatomy. Very few people, in reality, use the lower back as only a stabilizer. That is only a theoretical ideal. Of the thousands of people who do use the lower back, very few sustain injury and those are usually only people who are trying to handle more than they really can. Latman, the reason I asked about the leg curls isn't because I consider it a "core" movement, it was because he had it in his original post and I was wondering if he still planned to do them.

[Edited by chris mason on 02-03-2001 at 08:23 PM]

[Chris Rodgers]

Chris- We obviously got off on the wrong foot here. I apologize for the way I wrote that.


BTW- I use both squats and deads in my routine, but each is only performed once every 9 days or so. There is 4-5 days inbetween each movement. This works with my recovery.

[chris mason]

Apology accepted.

[Paul Stagg]

Cack!!

I like it.

If you have trouble progressing on both the squat and dead, I would drop the dead and leg curl, and add in SLDL. But, I'd give it a shot as is for now. I like the idea of starting out with a little more and as progression slows (if it slows) you can drop some stuff.

I do agree with Chris that the push day is a little much, I would drop the flyes and 1 press, and keep the dips (I like inclines and dips) - although you can probably get away with the additional work.

20 pounds in 5 months isn't unreasonable. Keep an eye on the fat gain.