Questions for the Americans....

[Tryska]

what are y'all thoughts on various companies takign their operations off-shore, or outsourcing specific departments (usually manufacturing and/or IT) to companies in other countries?


i used to believe it was a good thing for other countries economies that they got US business, however, lately as I've seen many of my friends and coworkers across the country out of work due to business being taken off-shore, manufacturing plants closed down here and taken overseas, only to have those goods sold back to us at the same prices, i have gotten quite irritated by it all.

this thread is spurred by the last Levi Strauss plant in the US closing it's doors, and also by rumors that Dell is bringing their computer support back from offshore, since it didn't work out so well.

what are your thoughts?

[Bam Bam]

I thought it was funny the spokeswoman for strauss was saying WE value our american customer so we want to make sure our product keeps its high quality so we are closing down our american factories

[Spartacus]

considering that many of the people getting these jobs are going to be helped out of complete poverty, its benefitial especially considering how little the US gives to other countries.

its quite unfortunate for the american workers. however, other jobs are created because the new jobs in foreign contries create incomes that can be spent on american products.

[IceRgrrl]

I think the thing that bothers me the most is companies that outsource parts of their operations offshore or to other countries so that they can make even more profit so that fatcat CEO's can be even more obscenely compensated while your average American worker is laid off or shuffled into lower paying work.

I'm not against companies making profits...I AM against the fact that today's CEO pay is so wildly out of line with what everyone else at the company is making. U.S. companies are drastically cutting or eliminating long-term investment in their business in order to chase short-term gains that may not be good moves in the long run. For example, many U.S. "technology" companies do not develop any of their own technologies anymore. They buy the technology from overseas, package it as their own, and sell with a markup.

[Stephen Riddington]

Strauss also shut it doors in Canada, 1,180 workers out of a job.

[Spartacus]

i don't think there is a link between the excess pay CEOs are getting and job cutting at the lower level.

it is getting into the issue of the large, and growing income inequality in the US

Hey icergrrl i didn't know anyone here liked underground music (i haven't listened to granddady's new cd though...)

[twisteddendrite]

Originally posted by Spartacus
considering that many of the people getting these jobs are going to be helped out of complete poverty, its benefitial especially considering how little the US gives to other countries.


.

WTF do you realize how many soles in the good old USA are in poverty?

[rpffly]

Spartacus- The U.S. gives a ton to other countries.

It's tough. A companies first obligation is to make a profit. With increasing workers comp premiums, increased wages including minimum, increased competiton, taxes, etc. gives them good reason to take plants off shore. Yeah corps. are greedy and want to make as much money as they want but there is nothing we can do about that. When one door closes another one opens. Technology is the key to economic growth. Hopefully those people can make adjustments in their lives and aquire new skills.

[Spartacus]

the us only gives a lot because its economy is so big, and has a large population. per capita, the us foreign aid is one of the couple lowest in industrialized world, including countries that have lower per capita income.

and aid has declined a lot since the end of the cold war. and a lot of that was political, not economically useful. (ei subsidizing buying tanks, not building schools)

sorry i don't have actual statistics

[pusher]

The solution is more taxes.

[Tryska]

Originally posted by rpffly
When one door closes another one opens. Technology is the key to economic growth. Hopefully those people can make adjustments in their lives and aquire new skills.

guess what? the technology jobs are the ones, along with manufacturing, that are primarily sent off-shore. that's both support and developers.

spartacus...from what i can tell new jobs are not being created.

[rpffly]

Do you think countries who receive funds from the US are concerned about the amount per capita or are more concerned amout the actual figure they receive?

It's not our job to fund other countries because we have a powerful economy.

Sorry for going off topic.

[twisteddendrite]

Originally posted by pusher
The solution is more taxes.

on imports

[Tryska]

that almost sounds like a good idea there dendrite.

[rpffly]

Originally posted by Tryska


guess what? the technology jobs are the ones, along with manufacturing, that are primarily sent off-shore. that's both support and developers.

spartacus...from what i can tell new jobs are not being created.

Right, but there are plenty of small companies who are developing new technology for their products. For instance the company we represent developed a technology that made one of their product lines extremely durable and was able to expand that technology into their other product lines. It also enabled them to lower their costs dramatically. It is changing the way the industry makes products.

[Spartacus]

Originally posted by twisteddendrite


on imports

this saves jobs in industries that go overseas, but because of effects on currency, it also costs jobs in export sectors.

and this is assuming that other contries don't enact retaliatory tariffs

[Spartacus]

tryska - its harder to see the jobs created because the are incremental across the whole export sector, not a single factory.

china for instance is importing twice what it was importing a few years ago, mostly people people there have better jobs.

because of china's industrialization and modernization (such as producing cheap electronics) their incomes have been increasing rapidly, meaning they are going to buy more stuff. (as consumers and as companies buying industrial equipment)

someone is producing those goods, and while they aren't all coming from the us (their exports aren't going to just the US either), a large amount are coming from the US. and that = US jobs

[PowerManDL]

Let's go conquer a few more countries. That always seems to help out.

[Tryska]

Originally posted by Spartacus
tryska - its harder to see the jobs created because the are incremental across the whole export sector, not a single factory.

china for instance is importing twice what it was importing a few years ago, mostly people people there have better jobs.

someone is producing those goods, and while they aren't all coming from the us (their exports aren't going to just the US either), a large amount are coming from the US. and that = US jobs

i can't figure out what you've just said.

could you make it a little clearer please?

[twisteddendrite]

Originally posted by PowerManDL
Let's go conquer a few more countries. That always seems to help out.

Thats the spirit.


Just like with Iraq either you are with us or you are next.

Assimiliate
Resistance is futile



Borg Boy

[Berserker]

I think its funny a product like Levis that is so American made off shore.
I don't like seeing jobs moved over seas. We need to take care of our own first. Though some people hurt it for everybody by being non productive. I worked with steel unions, they are awful. Lazy and making big $.
As far as CEOs getting paid to much its not that simple. First off you can't have guy making 100k running a billion dollar outfit. Theres not alot of incentive for the guy. These guys need the company to do better so they do better.
Also I was told once its a matter of being competitive. The CEO can just go work someplace else.

[Reinier]

I dont know if this is underestimating or overestimating it, but labour globalisation seems to be an issue that is far too complicated with far too many factors for me, without an economic or legal education to say anything sensible about.

[Spartacus]

Tryska - i skipped a step in my first post. if it still doesn't make sense i'll try again

[Tryska]

ah i see, spartacus.

but then that begs the question, are they importing from american companies? is that what you mean? because if so, then no..that doesn't equal american jobs.

[Spartacus]

?

making products requires workers. so if other countries buy more american products, someone gets hired to make them.