low vs high

[mds_79]

tomorrow i'm gonna start a low volume rountine that i got from chris. i plan on trying this for routine for a month and see what results i get from it. to me it looks promising. one of the guys who got me into lifting basically says this type of routine is completely useless and begged me not to waste my time. i'm having trouble convincing him that this type of routine holds merit. he likes high volume. i need help in presenting my arguement to him in an intelligent manner. can u guys help?

[The Cobra]

Tell him that being closed-minded will only limit his quest for a better physique. High and low volume will both work to an extent. Tell him that training is only 33% of the battle (the other thirds being nutrition and rest). Tell him that goats can contract syphilis. Tell him that any Police Academy movie after 3 was a disgrace. Tell him that the average penis size really is only a little larger than 5", in spite of whatever he may claim.

[chris mason]

First, does your buddy juice? If he does, of course he likes volume. If not, how big is he? If he isn't much bigger than you, why not do the routine and let the results speak for themselves. Second, have you used a volume routine and not gotten the results you were after? I am going to assume the answer is yes bacause if it wasn't, you wouldn't be trying something new. So, if his way didn't work, why not try a different way? You have read all of the posts here about the virtues of lower volume, so you have the argument you want. Read my article for some ammo if you need it. In the end, just do it and let him be jealous.

[Chris Rodgers]

I think your best argument for him would be to bust your ass on the low volume for like a month. Then show him the gains you've made. Laugh at him because he was spending longer in the gym and you made better gains. In my experience I have found I progress better with lower volume. I have a friend who pushes massive weights and has always trained with high volume and high intensity techniques. He is natural, but he is a freak of nature. Try the low volume and see how it works for you.

[mds_79]

thanks guys
the guy is ALOT bigger than me. he's been working out since he was 11 or 12 , he's now almost 23. 5 11', 260lbs, bench 475, natural. hes a freak thats all i can say and i've know him since we were 14. me and him are exact opposite in regard to body type. i got really small joints and he;s got really big joints.
after giving it abit of thought no matter what i say to him it probably won't make much of a difference anyway. i'm just gonna do my own thing and train as smart and as hard as i can.

[The Cobra]

He's only 23 and he has those stats? Damn.

[YatesNightBlade]

MDS ...... Say 1 name to him ......

1) Dorian Yates

Then say "Geez imagine how big Dorian could have been if he followed your high Volume approach"

[Cackerot69]

he either isn't natural, or he's a fatass.

nobody gets to a lean 260 with no "help".

[Pup]

mds_79,
The main thing is that you have to find what works for you. Whatever you have to do to make the best gains is the way to go. Sometimes it's also a good idea to alternate between high and low volume, shock your body a little. By the way, your friend sounds impressive, is he an athlete or does he just lift to stay in shape?

[Chris Rodgers]

Cackerot- I wouldn't say "nobody". Just about 99% of us, but it is possible.

[gino]

By the way, give it a little longer than 1 month to see improvements. I'm not sure how advanced you are, but a month is not a long time and most good training routines aren't quick fixes. Low volume isn't magic(allthough in my book, it's close), but rather it's a routine that will benefit you most over an extended period of time.

[Paul Stagg]

Agree. Takes more than a month to see if a routine works well.

[chris mason]

Cack hit that one on the head. Of course, it was never stated whether or not this friend is lean. I do find it hard to swallow that he is 5'11" 260 lbs and has a 475 lb bench. It is possible, but VERY unlikely. I have some friends with AWESOME genetics and they don't have those kind of stats. Each of these friends has dabbled in the juice to varying degrees, but nothing crazy. The one with the best overall genetics has taken his fair amount of drugs, but has been clean for some time and he is 5'10" and about 250lbs with a 450ish bench. I have anonther friend who weighs between 275-310 lbs at about 6' in height and he doesn't bench that much even when supplementing himself. He is not super lean, but not a blob either. There are others, but you get the point. There are very few natural trainees with a 400 lb plus bench. Of those, it really insn't that hard to beat the drug tests of most organizations, so their "natural" status is quite dubious. The natural trainee who benched 450 lbs plus is most likely a big boned giant of a human (think gorilla), and not a ripped bodybuilder looking individual. At 5'11" it is nearly impossible to be ripped at over 215-220 lbs. I did say nearly, so don't get all excited. Please don't mention Musclemania because I really don't believe that the heavyweights that look good in those shows are clean. Think about it, those guys are as big or bigger than the guys that competed in Arnold's day (who admitted they juiced). Don't pull the "supplements and training methods of today are much better" b.s. either. Most of the supps out today are as worthless as the supps of yesteryear, and the ones that do work (possibly creatine) are nowhere near as effective as steroids. So, I rest my case.

[Pup]

As Chris said, there is an exception to this rule. I know for a fact that there is an offensive lineman at Michigan State who 6'6, 320 lbs, who in the offseason is 14% bodyfat with a 500lb bench press and an 850lb squat. That's no bs, one of my friends in college is a close personal friend of his and can verify all of this. There is an occasional genetic freak, it's just not very often.

[The Cobra]

The question is whether or not that lineman juices.

[Behemouth]

i would say that the offensive lineman juices. if not he belongs in some kind of circus. most men that are 6'6 don't have a strong bench as opposed to someone 5'10 because of the distance they have to move the weight (assuming their arms were somewhat proportionate with the rest of their body) if he is natty he is a super freak. also being on a college football team there is often a lot of pressure to use performance enhancing drugs, at least i think anyway.

[chris mason]

Of course the lineman juices! There are exceptions, but he isn't one of them. I went to high school with a couple of lineman who play in the NFL, and I know for sure one of them juices and can say with 99% confidence the other does as well. Think about, lineman just 15-20 years ago averaged 240 lbs, and quite a few of them lifted weights. Why do you think the average offensive lineman is 300 lbs plus? It's not evolution boys and girls.

[mds_79]

i can assure u guys that as unbeleivable as his stats may seem they are true. hes 5 7' at about 11% bf.
u guys can come to hamilton and watch him if u want.
i have no reason to lie about someone elses stats, maybe my own, but not someone elses.
but his stats aren't really issue here, its training methodoligies(sp?)

anyway, i just got back from the gym and did the back workout that u gave me chris. to be honest i'm used to more volume then that. but i gave every set my all, knowing that each set counted. i worked my butt off today. i think because of the drop in volume i was able to focus on each set more.
i'm gonna stick with it and i'll let u know how things progress
thanks again

[David]

Originally posted by The Cobra
...Tell him that any Police Academy movie after 3 was a disgrace...

WTF?? What the hell does that have to do with training??

By the way, did you see the one where they went to Russia on assignment, man that was a good one, LOL.

[The Cobra]

Alright, Triple P. Here comes that can of whoopass! That was actually number 7 (the Mission to Moscow). It was a disgrace to the Police Academy movies! The only good ones are movies 1-3! And it has everything to do with training! Don't you remember in #2 when Bobcat Goldthwaite discussed the merits of super-slow training with Steve Guttenberg? And then Moses Hightower came in and HIT them both while Jones turned up the VOLUME on his personal stereo system... Okay, so I'm stretching it a bit...