running build legs?

[bentkarnes]

I'm starting a cut for a few monthes and I'll be running 2-3 times a week. It's been awhile since I last did some cardio and Last week after a 30 minute run I could barely walk for about 5 days my legs were so sore.

Can you ever expect any muscle gain in your legs from running? I'm not cutting that hard, I'm basically just cutting out the 'fatty foods' I eat and doing cardio.

[Adam]

cardio will not build up your legs to any noticeable level.

[WillKuenzel]

Endurance exercises don't build muscle.

[jimlynch11]

What about riding hills or hiking mountains (especially with a pack)? I'd say those can be considered endurance exercises that build muscle.

[KingJustin]

Maybe it will add some muscle to someone who hasn't done it much or is in poor shape, but it won't be terribly noticeable.

BTW, I live in Summerfield (my backyard is actually in Greensboro), Jim.

[drew]

Run hills hills and hills. Do it enough and you'll see growth. There's a reason I squat almost 2x what I bench

[Hercule]

Yes, running will give you huge legs. You can quit ALL squatting and leg presses, if you run enough. Like 3 hours a day.


:evillaugh

[Saint Patrick]

What about riding hills or hiking mountains (especially with a pack)? I'd say those can be considered endurance exercises that build muscle.

If that was the case, then Lance Armstrong would have huge legs instead of skinny chicken legs.

If you want huge legs, lift heavy ass weights. With your legs. Pretty simple, really.

Besides, squats are fun.

[shootermcgavin7]

To play Devils Advocate....


Armstrong has nowhere near "bodybuilding legs". However, Armstrong (if you've seen him in the Nike commercial), has an impressive amount of mass for an endurance athlete.

Obviously, the answer to this question is "It depends". What do you want to get out of it?


Running more will make you better runner. Lifting heavier weights will make you better at lifting heavy weights.
I'm a strong believer in functional training.

[mmckinley]

My calves get huge when I run. I do about 5 miles 4 times a week with my dad when I go home for the summer and my calves are always much larger at the end of the summer. During the school year they always shrink back down. I don't generally do calf isolation exercises during the school year. I would say intermittent sprinting (fartlek/Hitt) would probably build more calf muscle if you're going to be running. The only surefire way is to try it.

[Kirman]

dude you need to SQUAT & DEADLIFT!

Run if you wish to cut tut i mean come on SQUAT!!! lol enjoy!!

[gino]

Endurance running, no.

Explosive sprint training, yes.

[geoffgarcia]

Explosive sprint training

IME that'd be a no...
I did it for 8-9 years at a pretty competitive level, day in day out all year round, explosive starts outta blocks...my legs are far from big.

[WillKuenzel]

IME that'd be a no...
I did it for 8-9 years at a pretty competitive level, day in day out all year round, explosive starts outta blocks...my legs are far from big.

In the case of building leg mass:
endurance running < Explosive sprint training < squats or other leg exercises

geoff, you were probably doing alot of other running at the time instead of just training explosive sprints 2-3 times a week for HIIT, were you not?

Depending on the style of training they can help build big legs but unless you are doing something else as well, that alone won't make them huge.

[geoffgarcia]

HY nah, not much "other" running...no miles or anything like that.

typical workouts were 100s, 200s or 400s

an in-season week (Oct.-June) (depending on if we were on an indoor or outdoor track) was something like:
monday, 6 or 8 x200s, under 25, with a 45-70 second rest
Tuesday, 5 to 8 x400s, under 56 with a 60-80 second rest
Wed, 4x300's
Thurs, 6 to 10 x50's or 100's outta blocks working on start.
Friday, rest if there was a meet on Sat. else more 2 or 400's

getting to the end of the season we'd work on more speed work, dropping the 400's and going more for fast bungee and parachute work to increase our turnover

While we might not have been going outta the blocks all the time, you still have to get out there really quick from a dead stop.

(June-Aug) long distance base building
10 miles per week

(Aug-Oct) building up on the base
1 mile repeats, 800x6 3-4 minute rests, long hills (200-600m)

[UKmarkw]

Try doing running lunges uphill, that could be the best of both worlds !

Only joking, just squat.

[WillKuenzel]

HY nah, not much "other" running...no miles or anything like that.

typical workouts were 100s, 200s or 400s

an in-season week (Oct.-June) (depending on if we were on an indoor or outdoor track) was something like:
monday, 6 or 8 x200s, under 25, with a 45-70 second rest
Tuesday, 5 to 8 x400s, under 56 with a 60-80 second rest
Wed, 4x300's
Thurs, 6 to 10 x50's or 100's outta blocks working on start.
Friday, rest if there was a meet on Sat. else more 2 or 400's

getting to the end of the season we'd work on more speed work, dropping the 400's and going more for fast bungee and parachute work to increase our turnover

While we might not have been going outta the blocks all the time, you still have to get out there really quick from a dead stop.

(June-Aug) long distance base building
10 miles per week

(Aug-Oct) building up on the base
1 mile repeats, 800x6 3-4 minute rests, long hills (200-600m)

I can understand all that. I ran track for 7 years as well. LOL, I had some tiny ole stick legs. Its not so much that those workouts don't have alot of running at one time but add all those up and the distance traveled at the end of the week is a bit more than most guys with big legs would be doing. Granted you'll see some sprinters with big legs but those guys already have the genetic disposition to be big or just proportionate.

Sort of what I mentioned before applies as far as leg size,
long distance runners < sprinters < bodybuilders

Doing sprint work will build bigger legs than if you were doing an incredible amount of long distance running, but even with just doing sprint work you are still doing quite a bit of running at the end of the week.

I think we agree that it won't build huge legs but it will build bigger legs than just endurance running. But still won't quit build the legs that just doing some heavy squats would.

[prof]

marathon runner, with not very big legs. Your body adapts to the work you do, you don't need big legs to run a marathon, so you don't get them from running marathons.........

[aka23]

If you look at elite runners, as distance increases leg size decreases. This is primarily not because of the running. It is because the optimal body weight decreases as distance increases, distance athletes rarely have good weight training programs for hypertrophy, and genetic selection. A distance runner, a sprinter, or a bodybuilder can have large legs; with an effective weight training program. However, the size will be a significant hindrance to the distance runner and will likely hinder the sprinter as well.

Most ~6’ elite sprinters weigh ~180lb. Michael Johnson is 6'1 and 175lb. Bernard Williams is 6'0" and 178lb. John Capel is 5'11" and 180lb. This is enough weight to have a decent amount of muscle, but no where near competitive bodybuilding standards. If they added more muscle/size, it would hurt performance, especially for longer sprints. Elite distance runners of the same height are much lighter. Alan Culpepper (10000m=6.25mile) is 6'1" and 130lb. Abdi Abdiraham (10000m=6.25mile) is 5"11 and 130lb. Most of us would probably consider this stick thin, without significant muscle or size. They intentionally try to maintain a light weight with little size/muscle to perform at their best. Some elite distance runner's weight program only consists of running hills. The ones that do weight training generally use lighter weights and higher reps than sprinters, often focusing on muscular endurance. Some distance runners intentionally use extremely high reps out of fears of gaining too much size. Another important factor is genetics. Elite distance runners tend to be ectomorphic persons with a high ratio of slow twitch fibers. They generally do not put on muscle easily and do not display as much hypertrophy as others. Sprinters tend to have more of a mesophorphic body type with a high ratio of fast twitch fibers. They generally put on muscle more easily than distance runners and display greater hypertrophy with the same training.

Sprinting, distance running, cycling, or other cardio activities are not an efficient way to increase leg size. There may be some hypertrophy, especially in beginners, but it is far less efficient than weight training. This does not mean that you cannot have large legs while doing these activities. One just needs to include weight training along with the cardio sessions.

[bentkarnes]

well thx for all the advice, got more than I need.

And yes , I do squat, progressing very slowly but progression none the less.

And squats are not fun for me, I actaully hate leg day. After a leg workout I can barely walk up/down my appartment stairs, I have to clench the rail.

[gino]

IME that'd be a no...
I did it for 8-9 years at a pretty competitive level, day in day out all year round, explosive starts outta blocks...my legs are far from big.

I wouldn't say that you're the norm though. Most competitive sprinters have very large thighs relative to the rest of their physique. All of the sprinters I currently train with have disproportionately large thighs. I train legs very hard during the off-season with weights, but when the sprint training starts, I'll back off and do legs intensely maybe once or twice a month and I don't lose even a half inch off my thighs. Then again, I don't do any 200 or 400 meter, I only go up to 100s.

Also, I spent the first 15 years of my life with people pointing and laughing at my chicken legs, so I'm not exactly genetically gifted in the thigh area naturally. Lots of heavy leg training and sprints keep my thighs pushing the 30" barrier.

[geoffgarcia]

I wasn't just referring to my own thighs...more of a general understanding I have from training with various sprinters and the meets I'd been to...its just my opinion that the style of training doesn't mean that your going to have large thighs....
maybe our definitions of "large" are just different though *LOL*

[ReturnedFire]

i just walked/ran for like 20 minutes, and my calves got a huge pump

but that's prob cuz i haven't done any cardio in a WHILE