How Do You Improve Your Initial Pull Off The Floor?

[Maki Riddington]

If this is your weak point, what have you done or what do you do to fix this problem?

[Chris Rodgers]

How is your speed on deadlifts?

Also, would you say your lower back strength is good or weak?


I can get any weight moving off the floor, my problem is the opposite. I have very good speed and lower back strength which gets the weight going.

[homunculus]

Try good mornings and work on stiff legged dead lifts. Also, maybe you could do deadlifts off a plat form with the weight on the floor, so you are pulling lower than you are used too. This is all stuff from West Side Barbell lifting advice.

[Maki Riddington]

What I use as of present are good mornings and stiff legged deads. I have a strong feeling that my hamstrings are very weak in relation to my quads and lower back.

So, it's just a matter of playing around with my reps, sets and percentages for the time being. I was asking more to see what everyone else does.

[homunculus]

how tall are you?

[Maki Riddington]

5'9.

[homunculus]

Does your lower back round when you fail to pull it off the floor?

[KeMiKaL]

what does it mean if my back rounds halfway through the lift when its a near max lift...too heavy? (I can still stand all the way up though)

[homunculus]

This means your lower back is too weak to keep straight...I have this problem too if I go too heavy. Your form deteriorates as the weight increases. This is normal for any exercise isn't it? If you work on your form, that is make sure your hips are low enough at the bottom too, and work on your weak areas, your weight will go up. The biggest problem I see is that people start with their hips too high in the air. Maybe you are doing that?

[Maki Riddington]

Does your lower back round when you fail to pull it off the floor?

*** No, that is why I feel it is my hamstrings that are weak. Actually, since I don't ever do any kind of direct work for them I know they are the weak link.

[edd91]

if you dont do any direct work for hamstrings, I'd guess you have several posture issues you should address first. Start hitting those hamstrings with some natural GHR's and do pulls of the floor

[Max-Mex]

Mak

Read an article the other day about how stance affects off the floor power. It said that generally sumo lifters have more problems off the floor and conventional lifters have problems with lockouts. Now, not sure whether this is true or not, but I've done both and it seems to be true, for me anyway.

I've read a few times that if you have problems off the floor you should lift from a platform. Haven't tried this myself but it seems it would make sense since (forcing your ROM to icnrease).

Oh, I read this in MonsterMuscle (great mag btw).

[Max-Mex]

As far as ham weakness goes, I think direct work will help a tremendous amount. I felt I had weak hams and I added RDL's, GHR's, and Sumo DL's and I've seen great results in strength. Recently added ATF back squats so I'm all set.

[chris mason]

Maybe we can Phil to chime in here.

[Maki Riddington]

if you dont do any direct work for hamstrings, I'd guess you have several posture issues you should address first. Start hitting those hamstrings with some natural GHR's and do pulls of the floor

*** What kind of postural issues do you feel I might be suffering from?

[ElPietro]

Maki do you often 1rm on deads? The reason I ask is because one of the things I think that is a key factor, as funny as it sounds, is simply willpower and being stubborn. Generally, many times when I've gone for maxes or PRs, when you first try to pull it feels like you won't make it, but then you just continue and once it starts moving you gain more momentum and confidence. Of course, i've also hurt my back due to the same stubborn attitude, but I think it is an intangible that really will help produce results.

Quite often there's a part in the ROM where I feel that I can't get it locked, but I just continue to struggle/get angry/whatever and in the end I complete the lift.

[chris mason]

if you dont do any direct work for hamstrings, I'd guess you have several posture issues you should address first. Start hitting those hamstrings with some natural GHR's and do pulls of the floor

Do you not feel the hamstrings get worked very intensely with the deadlifts and squats he performs?

[Adam]

I've read before:
Feet facing straight forward makes lockout easier
Toes pointing out makes it easier off of the floor

[WillKuenzel]

I don't have any problems straight off the floor, my problem is lockout. But if I were having difficulty, like Max-Mex mentioned, doing deadlifts off a platform or using 25's instead of 45's on the bar can help. Increase the ROM at the bottom.

I'd also recommend some pullthroughs and glute ham raises.

[edd91]

Do you not feel the hamstrings get worked very intensely with the deadlifts and squats he performs?

I'd say unless he works them directly, he would have a messy firing pattern, whereby the glutes and hamstrings don't get recruited until they are needed, which is possibly resulting in a poor pull off the floor

[edd91]

*** What kind of postural issues do you feel I might be suffering from?

At a guess, maybe some posterial pelvic tilt, maybe resulting in slight kyphosis. I'd also hazard a slight guess you walk with your feet out, but thats not neccessarily so

[PowerManDL]

I'd say unless he works them directly, he would have a messy firing pattern, whereby the glutes and hamstrings don't get recruited until they are needed, which is possibly resulting in a poor pull off the floor

Why would he have a "messy firing pattern" when the only thing that trains the form of a particular lift is doing that lift?

What exactly do you mean by "messy firing pattern" in the first place?

[Maki Riddington]

Maki do you often 1rm on deads?

*** Lately I've been fiddling around with sub max singles for deads. 6 sets of 1 rep at 90% of my 1RM. It has helped me figure out where my weakness lies in the lift.

The reason I ask is because one of the things I think that is a key factor, as funny as it sounds, is simply willpower and being stubborn. Generally, many times when I've gone for maxes or PRs, when you first try to pull it feels like you won't make it, but then you just continue and once it starts moving you gain more momentum and confidence. Of course, i've also hurt my back due to the same stubborn attitude, but I think it is an intangible that really will help produce results.

*** My willpower says "don't do it." Usually I end up tweaking my lower back as a result since I suffer from lower back problems due to several car accidents. When I do become stubborn and overide the feeling I always suffer the next couple days, of course it's nothing a 6 or 7 Advil can't fix.

[Maki Riddington]

I'd say unless he works them directly, he would have a messy firing pattern, whereby the glutes and hamstrings don't get recruited until they are needed, which is possibly resulting in a poor pull off the floor

*** That's a load of nonsense. Isolation is not always required unless a severe imbalance is present.

Since you've mentioned that I may suffer from an improper firing pattern in my posterior chain, I would be interested in what the sequence of events are in a deadlift in terms of muscular recruitment. Also, does this sequence apply to all the various types of deadlifts?

[Maki Riddington]

Btw, if did have a posterior pelvic tilt I would have strong and tight hamstrings, not weak ones. Now I do admit they are weak, but that's in relation to the other muscles involved in the lift. Not weak in a way that they are severly imabalanced so that I suffer from postural problems that inhibit the execution of a deadlift.