hi, ive been doing tricep pushdowns for my tris (with the high pulley and the v bar)it seemed to be working.. and i was progressing although my triceps didnt seem to be getting any bigger.. then yesterday i tried doing DB skull crushers and now my triceps are sore as hell which is odd cuz i havent been sore in a long time as i work out regulairly.. this suggests to me that the skull crushers are much more effective than the pushdowns
the short answers
1) soreness is not an indicator of muscle growth
2) they are both good exercises
In my 13 years of lifting I've found that tri pushdowns are very effective.
I prefer using cables and pulling them out toward my sides, this seems particularly especially on the outer part of my tricep, while skull xers seem to really nail the part of my inner arm by my armpit.
I do both in my routines
Close grip bench tends to put to much stress on my wrists which I don't like at all...I've had wrist problems in the past and they are the last part of your body you want to mess up. If I change my hand position to correct this it turns into more of just a regular bench...so I skip them
The key to tricep pushdowns is not to do as much weight as humanly possible (IMHO) but to flex for a 2 count at the bottom position. I do them last also after I already have a pump.
Last edited by geoffgarcia; 08-04-2004 at 07:51 PM.
Skulls kill my elbows so I do CG bench, dips and pushdowns
I do dips followed by cable pushdowns. Personally, I don't feel that the tricep pushdowns do much for me by themselves. But when my tris are 'pre-exhausted' from 4 sets of weighted dips, I like the results.
maybe im not doin the pushdowns properly? i use the v-bar attachment and do about 125 pounds.. that seems odd cuz its more than most ppl i see yet im not very strong generally.. i pull it down.. try to get keep my elbows to my sides and try to fully extend and get abt 4 reps in
I find volume reps with lower weight and 4 or 5 sets work better then high weight and low reps. Hit 15 reps a set and you will see what I am talking about.
"1) soreness is not an indicator of muscle growth"
- it can be ... DOMS is a pretty sure indicator that protein degradtion have occured ... that is not neccesarily = hypertrophy, but still ....
tri pushdown = worthless to me.
dumbell extentions = the ****
skull crushers = the ****, but overdoing hurts elbows
dips = the ****, but overdoing strains the shoulders
closegrip bench = the ****, but same as dips
Just alternate them, so you dont overtrain :o)
regarding the weight you use.... just make sure your back is straight. If you lean over it enough, you can use the whole stack.
I'll have to try that pause at the bottom thing
Tensing the muscle at the extension of each rep for tris and bi's will do wonders for your muscles. It will develope your muscles to be much stronger and allow you to do less concentrated stronger exersices much easier.
Originally Posted by Smallman
Or the fact that you havent been practicing that same movement so its something your body is going to have to change and conform to. Whenever you start a new routine most likely you'll be sore or feel the 'burn'.
k thnx.. yea i think i was bending over too much when i do the pushdowns.. but its pretty hard to do it with out bending over somewhat.. the instructions even say ull have to bend over... so shud i try to keep the bending at a minimum or be as straight as possible?
small, walk forward until the cable is within an inch of your face, at that point your in perfect alignment and IMHO at this point leaning forward is simply a form of cheating, your making the isolation movement for your triceps a compound movement for your front delts, your pecs AND your triceps. Lower the weight till you no longer swing/lean.
The weights are relative to the amount of pulleys on the cable path.
Here is some info on this exercise:
the more you lean over it the more you turn it into a chest press movement and not a tricep isolation movementOriginally Posted by Madd Hatter
Last edited by geoffgarcia; 08-05-2004 at 02:03 PM.
Could you explain? No one in literature I've seen can even show what causes DOMS (protein degradation?), so could you enlighten us with where this is published? Muscle magazines don't count. Physiology texts and studies published in reputable journals do.Originally Posted by SirRepAlot
Even so, you state "that is not necessarily = hypertrophy" which means that using DOMS as an indicator of an effective workout would be... useless.
Squats work better than supplements.
"You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
"You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
I has a blog.
I has a facebook.
paul I think he was implying that if you get DOM's that you've obviously done some exercise, and doing SOME exercise is enough for some hypertrophy to take place.
Meaning your not gonna get DOM's if ya haven't been to the gym in the first place
at least thats how I interpreted it!
True, but I think that what Mr. Stagg might have been getting at was that Mr. SirRepALot stated that DOMS "can be" an indicator of muscle growth. You can grow with or without DOMS, this means DOMS is NOT an indicator of anything except that the muscle(s) are sore.
i've found pushdowns quite effective for gaining strength. before, i did only tricep extensions and was stuck on a particular weight for a few weeks. after adding pushdowns to my workout, i've been able to get past that barrier and increase constantly in either reps or weight for the triceps ext.
Last edited by dissipate; 08-06-2004 at 07:59 AM.
- I will search it up, i know its somewhere ... and geoffgarcia is correct ..Could you explain? No one in literature I've seen can even show what causes DOMS (protein degradation?), so could you enlighten us with where this is published? Muscle magazines don't count. Physiology texts and studies published in reputable journals do.
If i know that DOMS is caused by protein degradation(if)
If i know that hypertrophy occurs when the muscle is lifting over its conditioning level
Then, cant i with relatively certainity conclude that if im a bit sore after a workout with a ie. 2.5% overload that i hypertrophy is in session, provided the nutients to do so is present ?
Thats how i judge my workouts, now i know we're all different, and some do not get DOMS, thats just the way it is(is it a pain threshold thing or what?), but ME, I DO, so what i do, intensity and volume considered im aiming at a light soreness the following day ... do i get that, i know i've done right, right volume, right intensity and right overload. Note that "more sore" do not equal "more growth".. soreness past 36-48 hours is just a waste
Ditto, and thanks.Originally Posted by Madd Hatter
I tend to do them by keeping my elbows close and tight throughout the movement.
No, you can't. First you have to PROVE that DOMS is caused by protein degradation. Then you have to prove how DOMS is linked to hypertrophy.Originally Posted by SirRepAlot
You can't conclude anything beyond a crude hypothesis so far. If you could show us reputable published studies then you might be able to conclude further.