Interfaith/Interracially Marriages

[Nights]

Anyone had any experience with this? The reason I'm wondering is I'm engaged to a beautiful, east indian muslim. I, personally, am a canadian christian (though converting to Islam) and was not raised in the faith at all. My parents were not very religious, nor my grandparents. Only one I could remember at all being religious was my greatgrandmother who gave us socks, a cross and cheated at cards on christmas day.

Now, I have no problems converting. Honestly, I found out it reflected my beliefs stronger then christianity (an example - I never thought Jesus was a God. Son of God, yes, but more in the "we're all children of God" sort of way), but don't see myself becoming very religious. Not the way I was raised. Nor was she (though more so then me). Nor are her parents. Weirdly enough though, they expect me to learn more about and practice the religion more then do, as converts are normally more religious then those that were born into it. I'm fine with the fact they want to learn about it, but don't appreciate that they are pushing me into how deeply involved I am.

Also, while I'm willing to learn their culture, I don't believe in sacrificing my own for it. My fiance is fine this way, as she is already a blend of mine and hers (second generation) and in no way tries to force me into that, or even her religion. But I don't know if it's just the weather, but I feel at some times that this is the case with her parents. They have shown a great deal of respect and kindness and welcome for me into their family (I got fed m&ms as part of their engagement party), but I don't know if the differences between them and me will become a problem later on.

For example, my parents (and myself obviously) wanted my fiance to come back for christmas time (they live about 8 hours drive away) so they can get to know her better, and so she can meet the rest of my family. Unfortunately, this is against her culture. She argued with her parents, and I asked explaining what it meant to my parents, but unfortunately culture/religion came in the way. A unmarried man and women going on a trip alone together, along with her staying overnight there just wasn't allowed. Their alternatives was we could have the Nicca (saying "I do", so religiously married though she would still live at home until we perform the rest of the ceremonies), or she could fly down that day and fly out that night (which doesn't work cause nearest airport is about 2 hours away).

Like I said, I understand, and know that it would reflect badly upon the rest of the family, but at the same time, it seems like such a small request. So I wonder how many other things will be the same.

So, anyone got any stories to share? Advise to give?

[Gyno Rhino]

You're marrying the girl.

If she can't deal with her own family, then that's her problem - don't make it yours.

I'm not an "extended family" person, so it wouldn't bother me much at all. But I will say this: At all times, be yourself. Never, ever sacrifice who you are for what someone else wants you to be. It will NOT work in the long run.

So if you can be yourself with this girl, and she's happy with you for who you are - go with it. As for her family, respect their wishes, but take them as that - wishes. Your girl has her own mind, don't blame her family for the decisions that she makes.

[VasDeferens]

no stories, no advice.

Personally I will never convert to any religion just to marry.
I know, I wont say the same thing if I am deeply in love with a girl for few years and want to be a part of her life.
But,I will never get serious with any girl if I get a feeling that she or her family are hung up on the religion factor. I am not religious and even if I were, I will never put that condition of conversion to my religion.

[Nights]

I'm not an extended family person either, but I realize that her family means a lot to her. And yes, I realize their wishes are just wishes and that the final choice is hers, but I'd rather not have to put her in a place where she must disrespect, disappoint, disown her parents just to go to christmas with mine. For the beginning of our relationship, it was coming to a choice between me and her parents as they believe in arranged marriage, and also the fact that I was non-muslim. She chose me despite the fact it could have gotten her disowned.. In the end it worked out, but I know what her choice would be.

Thing is, I'd rather not have to put her in that position again. So I compromise. No, I won't be someone I'm not, but I'm not so stubborn that I can adapt to their culture so long as they respect mine.

As for converting religion for marriage, I wouldn't have done it if I didn't believe in it, or maybe wouldn't have done it if I was raised religiously under christian faith.. but yes, part of my reason was I love the girl. She didn't expect, or want me to convert just for her or her parents, but I don't see it that way. Yes, I started learning more about Islam because of them, but along the way I did start to believe in it. No, I'm not die hard religious, but that's who I am. I accept God, I believe in Him, but also accept it's my life to live.

[MrWebb78]

true love doesnt ask that anyone changes.

what you are explaining is a form of conditional love. not healthy imo, nor something i would do.

[Nights]

How is it conditional? She never asked that I convert, in fact she didn't want to teach me anything about islam because everyone she knew wanted her to convert me. I chose the religion. She'd be with me even if I didn't.

As for accepting her culture, I think it would be more conditional/stubborn if I refused to learn it. Yes, it'd be conditional if I was expected to live under it and forget everything I believe in, but that's not what's she's asking of me. So far we've both compromised on alot. Hell, fact she was willing to be disowned from her parents for me by going against her culture says a tad bit (dating when parents believe in arranged marriage, let alone dating someone of a different race and religion - my parents didn't care, so I didn't have to go through the same thing as her). Fact of the matter is, when I decided to convert, she tried to talk me out of it, because she thought if it was only for her, then I'd grow to resent her for it. Like I said, it's not.

Now the point of this thread was more advice on how to deal with her parents. Obviously I don't want to just nod and smile to everything they say, but same time I don't want to start arguements that cause rifts between her and her parents. Like I said, family means a great deal to her, and I'd rather not have her resent me later on for causing seperation. I know she chose me over family, but it's not something I'd like to bear being the cause of.

So far no stories or ideas to help me on whether it gets better, or how exactly I should deal. I know I don't have to play nice, but for the reasons I mentioned, I'd like a way to deal with it in friendly terms.

[mrelwooddowd]

I didn't change religions for my wife, but I did become a member of the Greek Orthodox Church, and was married there. They won't marry non-members, and it was important to my wife to be married in the church because she wouldn't be recognized as a full member if not, among other things. I was raised in the Nazarene Church, and went there regulary most of my life up until a couple years before we met. Those two years I didn't attend, but didn't "shun" my faith either. I just got lazy, and lost a lot of respect for the current administration at the church I attended. I admit, most of it was laziness though. The Greek Orthodox and Nazarene churches, although based on the same "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" ideals, are very different. The Greek Orthodox Church (not Greek specifically, but Orthodox. There are quite a few variances of Orthodox with the same basic structure.) was the first organized faith, starting up shortly after the death of Christ, and other faiths such as Catholicism, which was next, and Lutheran and others followed in time. They branched out due to differences in opinion of the way services are held, and of some of the ideology contained within those services and texts. I learned all of this because in order to be married in the Greek Orthodox Church, I had to become a member, which meant taking a membership class consisting of several once-a-week sessions to explain the history and ideology of the Greek Orthodox Church. The G.O. church still holds service exactly the same way it did at the very beginning of its existence, with only a music-less choir singing chantlike (yet beautiful) songs that go with what is called a "Liturgy," which is basically a long prayer filled with blessings, and thanks for different people and things. Also there is a chanter off to the side chanting the liturgy in Greek (in this particualr church), and in other Orthodox churches they have chanters chanting accordingly. There is also a typical sermon like with any other church. The service is very beautiful, and very reverant, and I quite enjoyed it. It was much different that the services I grew up with in the Nazarene Church, which are a lot of stomping and snorting, and loudness.

The Nazarene Church (in my neck of the woods) is much like a Southern Baptist, or one of the many that you see on TV channels, such as the one owned by the Rev. Jerry Falwell's Liberty university. I'm sure you have a pretty good idea what that's like, so I won't go into it.

Back to my point...

So we were married on December 29, 2002 at the church, and never attended a service after that day. My becoming a member of that church did not sit well with my parents for a long time, and I had to endure considerable discussion with them prior to doing this, and if I knew that we were not going back, I may not have done it. My wife's family doesn't attend regularly for about the last 5 years, but I do understand why she wanted to do this, as it was part of maintaining her Greek heritage, and ensuring that her children would be a part of the church she attended until her late teen years. I was indifferent since it is a Christian church, and that is all I need to be happy. The reason I may not have done this is because not only did we never attend a G.O. service again, but not a service of any kind, and my wife has done a lot of soul searching and come to the decision that she isn't G.O. in her heart. At this point, she doesn't know what she is or wants to be, but only knows that she does believe in God and his teachings. Basically, I gave up a part of me, and took a little chunk out of my family's religious structure for the woman I love, but it didn't pan out as planned, and wasn't worth it.

Now, almost two years later to the day, my wife and I are separated. I've been living with my parents since April, and we have just gotten to the point where we are happy with each other again and want to go to counseling for the first time. I spent months going from complete a$$hole, to nice guy, and back to being a jerk again because I was not only angry for the situation we are in, and my contribution to it, but that I had sacrificed so much not only faith-wise, but financially and geographically, among others. I truly hope it works out. I love my wife more than I ever knew love was possible, but I finally realized that love is a verb, and can go away. It must be acted out in a multitude of ways, and when that slows or stops, love doesn't truly exist. Our denominational affiliation is not of concern to me at this point, but that whole incident, and the events that followed caused a tiny crack among cracks that came along. Those cracks in our relationship widened as the animosity grew, and I really ended up resenting her for what I've sacrificed in so many ways for our relationship, while feeling that I'm not reaping the benefits of a successful marriage. I have worked very hard to get myself back together, and it's rubbed off on her in a lot of ways as well, and I see a lot of change in both of us up to this point. Only time will tell if we can repair the damge that is already done.

So, you ask, what am I trying to tell you?

I'm telling you that, more than likely this will never end. What you are considering doing is on a much larger scale than my situation, and you see where I am now. It's amazing how your interaction with each other, or lack therof as a result of animosity toward relatives of a partner, can affect your relationship. My wife was constantly telling me that she didn't like my sister for this and that, or was mad at my mom for this or that, and although I knew that it was directed at them and not ME, and were completely fair arguments (although harsh in their judgements), it was my family she was talking about. As much as I love her, she was inadvertantly attacking other people that I would take a bullet for, and it grew incredibly frustrating and annoying, as she did nothing to alleviate the situations herself. Instead she looked to me to come up with ways to solve her problems with my family, when she could have just chalked it up to personal difference, like I do with her family. We ended up in arguments between us over stuff that started out about my family, or hers. My wife is very muchy more opinionated than I am (hard to imagine, huh? that's one of the things I love about her though), she's very well educated (and increasing that), and very very stubborn and cynical. She always sees the worst in someone due to a lot of screwovers from people arond her, and sees the glass as half-empty, while I am more of a glass half-full type, and look for the good that exists in most of us.

Your girl has to either stand up to her parents, and free herself of the religious hold they have on her (you did say that she doesn't practice, right?), or they will always be policing her (and you) based on a faith that you don't necessarily agree with all of the time. I'm not saying that she needs to defy them either..only that she is Muslim, and will more than likely continue to be Muslim, and tht will always be a big factor in your relationship. So maybe you should convert whole-heartedly to Islam, but something tells me that you don't want to do this, and only convinced yourself that it fell in with your personal beliefs to make it easier to convert in the first place. I could be wrong, but judging by your distaste for the customs they live by, I doubt it. You obviously love this girl,and are willing to make the sacrifice to be with her, but you need to TAKE THE TIME to make sure that you can function in their world, because you have been assimilated by some means, and must fall in with their beliefs in order to be happy with her, and definitely with them (and that is critically important). Would you toss your family aside for her? I don't see how she's going to defy them for you either, and they obviosly expect you to become one of them on some level in order to be acceptable for their daughter, which is ridiculous in my opinion, but that's my opinion. You have to do what is right for you. Don't even let her be a factor in this, because if you aren't happy with the situation as it works out, then she won't be either, and you may fail as a couple as a result. Harmony with the in-laws in some form has to be achieved. Some couples mange to get along fine despite differences that a partner has with the in-laws, but it's rare, and very tough to do. The family bond is just as strong, if not stronger than the marital bond.

Also my wife's Uncle is a practicing Muslim. His son married out of faith, and I think they are happy together, but I don't think the uncle likes the daughter-in-law, and mostly because she's Jewish. I don't think either of them are practicing though. I think that there's a lot of petty BS amid the family as a result, but somehow they persevere. It all comes down to what you want, and what you both can live with.

Do not come to this decision lightly. It is one of the biggest you'll ever make.

[mrelwooddowd]

i just read your last post..some of what i said you have already covered now i think..i will say that it was much easier for me to change denominations for love..love can make you convince yourself of a lot of stuff that you may not agree with without love to persuade you (i don't mean her, i mean your love for her)...i'm not saying your decision was wrong, but there may come a day when she doens't pick you over her parents anymore..like i said, family bond is strong, and you guys should talk about this (if you hven't i mean), and maybe talk to them about this..this is so very important for you man

[-sin-]

Dude, you live in Canada. Not some muslim controlled part of India. Its easy to see that you don't give a damn about religion and you are only converting to please her parents. They should be the ones changing, not you.

You need to have a man to man conversation with her father. Tell him how you feel about his daughter and that you arent going to tolerate him interfering in every aspect of your lives. Tell him your children are going to celebrate Christmas. You will either earn his respect or his daughter will have to marry some other poor shmuck they can run into the ground.

[crazedwombat]

hey Nights, dont listen to these fools...I gave up on white girls awhile ago and prefer to go internationally. since several of my friends are muslim and a friend or two married into mulsim its a whole diff culture and i can see how you would start believing in Islam because its actually not a bad religion and makes sense but most people only realze Islam as being a terrorist producing religion when its actually a peaceful one.

I participated in a lot of diff religions not really joining any except christianity which i dropped when i saw how many holes it had. I dated/was friends with Nepalese women, asian women and middle eastern women and have had a window into the diff cultures and religions and I have to say that i fell towards buddhism within Hindu. introduced by a female. nothing wrong with any religion or the reasons you initially got into it. its what you feel now. besides i know how hard it is to deal with the females parents, especially the mother of that side, since she's usually more strict in the culture. good luck with that man, I'm glad your woman got passed the whole culture barrier and opened her eyes to you.

[Maki Riddington]

From an interracial viewpoint, I suppose it can be tough for couples. My wife was not a Christian when we started dating. Now she is. Culturally speaking, all I know is when we go back to Kenya, I have to buy all her uncles, goats. Otherwise they will not view me as the husband. Well, it's something like that. I'll worry about it when the time comes.

[briancurran01]

hey Nights, dont listen to these fools...I gave up on white girls awhile ago and prefer to go internationally. since several of my friends are muslim and a friend or two married into mulsim its a whole diff culture and i can see how you would start believing in Islam because its actually not a bad religion and makes sense but most people only realze Islam as being a terrorist producing religion when its actually a peaceful one.

I participated in a lot of diff religions not really joining any except christianity which i dropped when i saw how many holes it had. I dated/was friends with Nepalese women, asian women and middle eastern women and have had a window into the diff cultures and religions and I have to say that i fell towards buddhism within Hindu. introduced by a female. nothing wrong with any religion or the reasons you initially got into it. its what you feel now. besides i know how hard it is to deal with the females parents, especially the mother of that side, since she's usually more strict in the culture. good luck with that man, I'm glad your woman got passed the whole culture barrier and opened her eyes to you.

so we are we all fools agin? just because we have a different opinoin then you? way to have an open mind there dude

[Brawl]

I was never into the religion BS but dont compromise anything of that nature to appease someones family .

The interracial part I have experience in . I've dated girls of all races in my life , some parents and some of their family members had a tough time with it .

Asian parents just wanted to keep their culture and blood lines pure I think . Black people were actually the most intolerant of me . Insults said in passing or the girls brothers wanting to fight but I was too big for them hahaha . The black girls parents were always super cool , especially the older ones like grandparents .

Anyway good luck bro , you might have an uphill battle but she might be the love of your life .

[Pitfan04]

My opinion and mine only...You can hate it..like it..or love it...still dont care...

I am a die hard Christian. I have believed in God and worshipped the Lord all my life. I would never first off change a religion based on falling in love with a girl. My standpoint on my religion is FIRST and FOREMOST in my life. My future wife will be Christian also, and I am not going to belittle myself by choosing different. Obviously you saying you are a Christian converting to muslim means you do not have to passion of being a Christian in your heart, and are truly not a Christian in your soul to be converting. Something tells me, you need to step back and just see where you stand on your religious belief.

Second...I AM NOT and will never be a condoner of interracial relationships. In the Bible it does say every human is created equal under the eyes of God...So by skin color, nationality..or anything it is "right" But also, at the Tower of Babylon, God changed ethnicities and languages to keep people from communicating. I believe interracial marriages and births will slowly be the dying of the races of today.

My .02 Take it how it sounds

[MrWebb78]

My .02 Take it how it sounds

it sounds ******ed.

[mrelwooddowd]

My opinion and mine only...You can hate it..like it..or love it...still dont care...

I am a die hard Christian. I have believed in God and worshipped the Lord all my life. I would never first off change a religion based on falling in love with a girl. My standpoint on my religion is FIRST and FOREMOST in my life. My future wife will be Christian also, and I am not going to belittle myself by choosing different. Obviously you saying you are a Christian converting to muslim means you do not have to passion of being a Christian in your heart, and are truly not a Christian in your soul to be converting. Something tells me, you need to step back and just see where you stand on your religious belief.

Second...I AM NOT and will never be a condoner of interracial relationships. In the Bible it does say every human is created equal under the eyes of God...So by skin color, nationality..or anything it is "right" But also, at the Tower of Babylon, God changed ethnicities and languages to keep people from communicating. I believe interracial marriages and births will slowly be the dying of the races of today.

My .02 Take it how it sounds

dude..it is very possible to misinterpret God's word. It is also very possible to read something with no deeper meaning than face value (I haven't read that part, but I'll skip to it from where I am), and find something that isn't there. The Bible times, and today's times are very different, just like the Old Testament and new testament times were very different. We should always keep that in mind. People evolve (not monkey evolve), and times change, and so should our faith, while maintaining the basic principles upon which it's based.

Oh yeah, Pitt sucks..Go WVU..(yeah, i know you guys finally won the BYB)
I think we'll get y'all in basketball though.
I do hope that pitfan04 stands for U of Pittsburgh, or I just wasted a taunt.

and chill out

[Mystic Eric]

Second...I AM NOT and will never be a condoner of interracial relationships. In the Bible it does say every human is created equal under the eyes of God...So by skin color, nationality..or anything it is "right" But also, at the Tower of Babylon, God changed ethnicities and languages to keep people from communicating. I believe interracial marriages and births will slowly be the dying of the races of today.

My .02 Take it how it sounds

lol

[MixmasterNash]

it sounds ******ed.

Yeah. Someone's skin color needs to be reproduced out of existence. Mine. A lighter shade of pale just ain't healthy unless you live in Ireland. So, let's all f**k until we're a medium-light brown.

[Maki Riddington]

Second...I AM NOT and will never be a condoner of interracial relationships.

*shakes head*

[TBone4Eva]

Well, as far as them pushing you into how deeply involved in Islam you become, it sounds like they are testing to see how committed you are to the conversion. Whether you are doing it in name only just so that you can be with their daughter or that you really want to be a muslim.

Second...I AM NOT and will never be a condoner of interracial relationships. In the Bible it does say every human is created equal under the eyes of God...So by skin color, nationality..or anything it is "right" But also, at the Tower of Babylon, God changed ethnicities and languages to keep people from communicating. I believe interracial marriages and births will slowly be the dying of the races of today.

My .02 Take it how it sounds

God did that because he wanted man to spread to the far corners of the world and multiply. That wasn't going to happen with everyone speaking the same language and such. Obviously the goal has been accomplished so it is not against God to have an interracial relationship.

Actually I think it would be great if the races of today died out. Finally the end of racism is on the horizon. What couldn't be done by mind, will be done by biology. lol

[Stephen Riddington]

My opinion and mine only...You can hate it..like it..or love it...still dont care...

I am a die hard Christian. I have believed in God and worshipped the Lord all my life. I would never first off change a religion based on falling in love with a girl. My standpoint on my religion is FIRST and FOREMOST in my life. My future wife will be Christian also, and I am not going to belittle myself by choosing different. Obviously you saying you are a Christian converting to muslim means you do not have to passion of being a Christian in your heart, and are truly not a Christian in your soul to be converting. Something tells me, you need to step back and just see where you stand on your religious belief.

Second...I AM NOT and will never be a condoner of interracial relationships. In the Bible it does say every human is created equal under the eyes of God...So by skin color, nationality..or anything it is "right" But also, at the Tower of Babylon, God changed ethnicities and languages to keep people from communicating. I believe interracial marriages and births will slowly be the dying of the races of today.

My .02 Take it how it sounds

I agree with Webb on that. If you really think that, then you're not a true believer of Christianity, more like some Christian extremist.

[KiwiBuilder]

My opinion and mine only...You can hate it..like it..or love it...still dont care...

I am a die hard Christian. I have believed in God and worshipped the Lord all my life. I would never first off change a religion based on falling in love with a girl. My standpoint on my religion is FIRST and FOREMOST in my life. My future wife will be Christian also, and I am not going to belittle myself by choosing different. Obviously you saying you are a Christian converting to muslim means you do not have to passion of being a Christian in your heart, and are truly not a Christian in your soul to be converting. Something tells me, you need to step back and just see where you stand on your religious belief.

Second...I AM NOT and will never be a condoner of interracial relationships. In the Bible it does say every human is created equal under the eyes of God...So by skin color, nationality..or anything it is "right" But also, at the Tower of Babylon, God changed ethnicities and languages to keep people from communicating. I believe interracial marriages and births will slowly be the dying of the races of today.

My .02 Take it how it sounds

Dude, that sounds REALLY ****ed up.

I am tolerant of most people, but it's religious zealots like you that make my blood boil.

[Gyno Rhino]

Heheh, you guys had better watch out or this fella will turn you into a pillar of salt.

God is on HIS side, and HIS alone, remember?

[-sin-]

Actually I think it would be great if the races of today died out. Finally the end of racism is on the horizon. What couldn't be done by mind, will be done by biology. lol

Everyone is a different race for a reason. People in Europe have white skin for a reason. People in Africa have black skin for a reason. The pigment of your skin is a product of your environment. If you take a group of black people out of Africa and move them to Sweden, in a few thousand years they will eventually develop white skin. Its a very slow process but just after a few hundred years you can already see much lighter skin tones in European Jews and African Americans.

There will never be one race as long as we all live on different continents. Racism will outlive mankind.

[crazedwombat]

briancurran...ha sorry about that man, i sub the word 'fools' for 'people' all the time and never realize it... didnt mean it in a bad way...i gotta watch out for that...


and pitt man...well, everyone else said my words so its all good. And yea, one day we'll all be a nice shade of gray and the kkk will have to start hating on the small animals they molest instead of everyone else...