who is right in this argument?

[iLUDEd]

topic discussed: "working out (weight training & cardio) on an empty stomach"

person 1 says:
-not to skip breakfast as it is one of the most important meals of the day
-it doesnt really matter when the cardio is done during the day, as long as it is done.
-working out on an empty stomach will eat away your muscles.
- it is best to have a full sized breakfast, and then to wait a few hours, then have a light pre-workout meal, do your workout, followed up by a proper post-workout meal



person 2 says:
-they suggest you do cardio first thing in the morning because you can burn 300% more fat on an empty stomach vs cardio after eating (no real evidence given, im guessing 300% was just a random number selected to make the article sound convincing)
- you will see more results by exercising on a practically empty stomach in the early morning (weight training)

person 2 quoted an article off the net which tries to explain the "300% more fat" comment;
"So how exactly does this work? It's quite simple, really. Carbohydrate (glycogen) is your body's primary and preferred energy source. When your primary fuel source is in short supply, this forces your body to tap into its secondary or reserve energy source; body fat."

obviously, your body cannot eliminate the carbs in your system after 12hrs of sleep (ketosis takes a few days to reach after going without carbs (not a few hours).

obviously i am person 1.

should i give up on trying to tell person 2 that they are in the wrong? they are being really stubborn about it, and really think they are right, and have claimed to have spoken about this to various trainers etc.

[estropes]

Person 2 has a point...at least with my body. Yes you do burn more muscle with morning cardio, but you will also burn more fat 300%, is highly doubtful.

If I'm cutting and I run on an empty stomach, I definitly see results quicker. So I'd say it's a draw.

[Vapour Trails]

I would be on the cautious side and say don't run on an empty stomach.

[iLUDEd]

let me edit my post showing that the 300% more fat comment was a random number selected, and no proof/case study was given to back up the comment.

[BigCorey75]

both have points but it is rough for me to do anything before i eat in the morning.


the best would be to combine the oppinions of both


you do burn more fat when cardio is done in the morning on an empty stomach, due to the fact of not having food in your body to burn off so it uses fat for energy.


now this doesnt mean skip breakfast you would want to eat shortly after doing the cardio.



now i have to say its pretty rough for me to get a good workout on an empty stomach, and a leg workout is damn near impossible for me to complete on an empty stomach


my vote would be cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, then have a meal before you go and workout with weights

[Mike G]

let me edit my post showing that the 300% more fat comment was a random number selected, and no proof/case study was given to back up the comment.

In the article your friend is referring it says there have been studies that have shown this. http://www.sixpacknow.com/fatlosstips.html
Studies can show a lot if set up to favor one side. I don't think there is definitive proof that either argument is right. There are a lot of "studies" that support both arguments. To me, the best for cardio is a time that you will stick to, early on or later in the day.

[galileo]

There are some good threads on this here. I don't think either will change your results that much.

[pfc3rex]

they both have their own point of views that make sense to both subjects. When i worked out, and done cardio on an empty stomach it seemed that my body was doing more, then if i did cardio sometime throughout the day. I now try to eat before doing anything for the extra carbs, and protein..

[TwiloMike]

It seems to me that Person1 and Person2 do not have the same goals in mind, therefore there isn't really a "1 is right vis-a-vis 2" because they are answering different questions.

[IRN-BRU]

Both are valid tactics.

I think fatter people would be better with empty stomach exercise, eating afterwards curbs appetite and helps keep a negative calorific balance.

People with lower bodyfat and big muscle might want to eat first, but if they have big muscle they will probably know what's best for them already.

[KingJustin]

I agree with most of the views expressed, based on both personal results and reading. Cardio in the morning tends to burn more muscle/fat, while cardio not on an empty stomach tends to spare muscle almost completely, and hit less fat and mainly what you've just ate.

If one does decide to do cardio in the morning, it is advised that he have a whey protein shake with water 30 minutes or so beforehand.

Also, HIIT may be overly catabolic in the morning, while distance cardio is more reasonable.

Finally, if you're not doing any kind of distance cardio, I would not eat within 2 hours before running, because if you do you'll cramp up.

[Maki Riddington]

I personally find that on an empty stomach, moderate intensity type cardio works well. If I were going to do HIIT, I'd be a dolt to perform it on an empty stomach.

[Built]

Your question was not well posed.

topic discussed: "working out (weight training & cardio) on an empty stomach"

person 1 says:
-not to skip breakfast as it is one of the most important meals of the day
-it doesnt really matter when the cardio is done during the day, as long as it is done.
-working out on an empty stomach will eat away your muscles.
- it is best to have a full sized breakfast, and then to wait a few hours, then have a light pre-workout/cardio meal, do your workout/cardio, followed up by a proper post-workout meal

Cardio and lifting are VERY different activities. I do NOT feed them the same way.

person 2 says:
-they suggest you do cardio first thing in the morning because you can burn 300% more fat on an empty stomach vs cardio after eating (no real evidence given, im guessing 300% was just a random number selected to make the article sound convincing)
- you will see more results by exercising on a practically empty stomach in the early morning

Again, cardio and lifting are NOT the same. AM empty, steady-state moderate intensity (ie fast walking) cardio is fine, but not for looooong periods of time. I keep mine to under 40 minutes, MAX, usually closer to 20-30 minutes.

Only a fool would do their lifting empty first thing in the morning.

person 2 quoted an article off the net which tries to explain the "300% more fat" comment;
"So how exactly does this work? It's quite simple, really. Carbohydrate (glycogen) is your body's primary and preferred energy source. When your primary fuel source is in short supply, this forces your body to tap into its secondary or reserve energy source; body fat."

Good for steady-state cardio fat-burning, lousy for lifting or HIIT.

obviously, your body cannot eliminate the carbs in your system after 12hrs of sleep (ketosis takes a few days to reach after going without carbs (not a few hours).

obviously i am person 1.

should i give up on trying to tell person 2 that they are in the wrong? they are being really stubborn about it, and really think they are right, and have claimed to have spoken about this to various trainers etc.

To settle this, you need to clarify which type of training person 2 is referring to.

[shansen008]

both have points but it is rough for me to do anything before i eat in the morning.


the best would be to combine the oppinions of both


you do burn more fat when cardio is done in the morning on an empty stomach, due to the fact of not having food in your body to burn off so it uses fat for energy.


now this doesnt mean skip breakfast you would want to eat shortly after doing the cardio.



now i have to say its pretty rough for me to get a good workout on an empty stomach, and a leg workout is damn near impossible for me to complete on an empty stomach


my vote would be cardio in the morning on an empty stomach, then have a meal before you go and workout with weights

Dont exactly think thats true, the thread starter is correct in that it takes days to deplete your body of glycogen, so doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach will nto burn fat. But there is a middle ground here, and what it will do is deplete your muscles of glycogen, which it will have to replenish. At this point what you do after you rmorning cardio is the most important. Do you eat carbs after your cardio? If so i think you just wasted time if your goal was to burn fat with your morning run. By eating a high protein super low to no carb breakfast (think veggie omelette), your body will be forced to replenish muscle glycogen from the stores in your liver....getting you that much closer to burning fat. After a few days of doing this eventually your liver will be depleted as well, then what happens from there? Provided you aret getting 99% of your calories from protein.....youll stasrt gettin rid of the fat stores. Too much protein and your body will start breaking it down into sugars. This is why it is so important to strength train on a low carb high protein diet if you want to see the best results. Force your body to use that protein for recovery and it wont have much left to use as fuel before turning to fat stores.

IMO this is one of the reasons there are such mixed results on diets like Atkins.

[Maki Riddington]

it will do is deplete your muscles of glycogen, which it will have to replenish. .

You should clarify what constitutes "cardio." At what percentage of your MHR are you referring to?

[[[[----]]]]

Yeah, i wouldnt run on an empty stomach. Id probably get dizzy and pass out.

[iLUDEd]

well basically they are saying both weight training and cardio are fine to do on an empty stomach, and it gives you better results.

[shansen008]

You should clarify what constitutes "cardio." At what percentage of your MHR are you referring to?

Dont understand your post Maki...why you quoting me?

[Vido]

Unless we're talking about HIIT, I prefer cardio on an empty stomach.

Lifting on an empty stomach? No way

[Maki Riddington]

so doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach will nto burn fat. But there is a middle ground here, and what it will do is deplete your muscles of glycogen, which it will have to replenish.

This is what I was quoting. I just cut it down.

[waynis]

I'am going with person #1. If your coming off of 8-9 hours of sleep i'd be afraid you'd using up too many aminos.

[Max-Mex]

Question: In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter? I mean, doing it before one eats, how much fat does one really burn. I understand things can add up over time, but unless you are doing cardio before you eat in the morning 7 days a week, I don't see how it can help that much.

[Vido]

I understand things can add up over time, but unless you are doing cardio before you eat in the morning 7 days a week...

Who says you're not? When I cut I don't mess around. I don't feel like cutting for 6 months.

[Songsangnim]

Only a fool would do their lifting empty first thing in the morning.

tuttut

I've done that until recently. Nothing wrong with that (as long as you make sure to get in a good meal when you get home). If I eat before training I get sick, can't keep even a snack down. I have to wait at least two hours if I eat something. Since I have a full-time teaching job, I don't have that kind of time to waste.

[Vido]

tuttut

I've done that until recently. Nothing wrong with that (as long as you make sure to get in a good meal when you get home). If I eat before training I get sick, can't keep even a snack down. I have to wait at least two hours if I eat something. Since I have a full-time teaching job, I don't have that kind of time to waste.

I'd work out at night then if I were you. I'd never consider lifting first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. That's really a terribly catabolic position to be putting your muscles in.