How closely is size and strength related?

[civrob]

For some reason ive been thinking that just because your big doesnt mean your stronger than the person whos smaller than you.

Although you cant be muscly and big without being at least a little bit strong. I do however think that there is a grey area that covers both. I would however want my muslces to be directed towards my strength that way I wont lose it as fast?

Sorry if this thread doesnt make sense, but in a nutshell ive seen people who are more well built than others but are not as strong. i.e. would those genitically modified hairless gorillas win the worlds strongest man competition and not just the shows?

[d'Anconia]

They are somewhat related.

You're not gonna see a toothpick put up 315 on bench or 405 on squat.
On the other hand you will "probably" not see a guy with huge muscles (not fat but muscle) not be able to bench 135 or squat 185.

But pretty much everything in between is gray. They are only somewhat related. And remember that by size you have to be referring more to muscle size than overall size.

[Mik]

I'm weak and small. They are correlated!!!!!!

[Meat_Head]

For some reason ive been thinking that just because your big doesnt mean your stronger than the person whos smaller than you.

Although you cant be muscly and big without being at least a little bit strong. I do however think that there is a grey area that covers both. I would however want my muslces to be directed towards my strength that way I wont lose it as fast?

Sorry if this thread doesnt make sense, but in a nutshell ive seen people who are more well built than others but are not as strong. i.e. would those genitically modified hairless gorillas win the worlds strongest man competition and not just the shows?

There are alot of factors that go into strength as well as size. If you have a guy that's the same size as another guy but stronger he has one or multiple of these: more myofibrillar hypertrophy, better body mechanics, better CNS development, better body composition, better ratio of fast to slow twitch muscle fibers, etc.

Sacroplasmic hypertrophy doesn't do much for strength. It is attained generally by high reps and big pumps. Myofibrillar on the other hand is growth of the contractile fibers - the ones that work to lift heavy loads. That is attained by lower reps w/ heavier weight.

If your goal is size and strength gains, its best to have the majority(80-90%) of your training directed at myofibrillar hypertrophy and improving the efficiency of your central nervous system. The other 10-20% should be higher rep work with the goal of getting a big pump, as this will stimulate sacroplasmic hypertrophy(this might give you better endurance/endurance strength) gains. That high rep work can also over time make your capillaries, veins, and arteries bigger(supposedly part of sacroplasmic hypertrophy).

[[[[----]]]]

I think muscular density too maybe?

[civrob]

If your goal is size and strength gains, its best to have the majority(80-90%) of your training directed at myofibrillar hypertrophy and improving the efficiency of your central nervous system. The other 10-20% should be higher rep work with the goal of getting a big pump, as this will stimulate sacroplasmic hypertrophy(this might give you better endurance/endurance strength) gains. That high rep work can also over time make your capillaries, veins, and arteries bigger(supposedly part of sacroplasmic hypertrophy).

im confused

[CiteCollegiale]

You can't compare people because everyone is different. If you want long term size gains you better get stronger so in that sense its correlated.

[Rex]

I think muscular density too maybe?

Yes. And that's what Meat-Head means by myofibiril hypertrophy.

[HahnB]

You can't compare people because everyone is different.

Yep.

[Tony H]

Strength and size? Well, would you rather get punched in the face by David Hyde Pierce or Ron Coleman?

[ilankaplan1]

whose david hyde pierce??

[MM]

I'm lean, muscley, and look extremely strong, but I'm actually extremely weak.

Life's funny like that.

[qside]

I'd rather not get punched at all.

[Shao-LiN]

If you gain muscle size, you're sure to gain some strength...just like gaining some strength will entail gaining some muscle. But, there is no mathematical corollary that will say gaining x amount of muscle will have you gaining x amount of strength. You can quite easily build muscle whilst strength doesn't raise too much (think training for hypertrophy), and you can also focus on strength training and not gain the same type of size (i.e. powerlifting).

[REFLUX]

There are alot of factors that go into strength as well as size. If you have a guy that's the same size as another guy but stronger he has one or multiple of these: more myofibrillar hypertrophy, better body mechanics, better CNS development, better body composition, better ratio of fast to slow twitch muscle fibers, etc.

Sacroplasmic hypertrophy doesn't do much for strength. It is attained generally by high reps and big pumps. Myofibrillar on the other hand is growth of the contractile fibers - the ones that work to lift heavy loads. That is attained by lower reps w/ heavier weight.

If your goal is size and strength gains, its best to have the majority(80-90%) of your training directed at myofibrillar hypertrophy and improving the efficiency of your central nervous system. The other 10-20% should be higher rep work with the goal of getting a big pump, as this will stimulate sacroplasmic hypertrophy(this might give you better endurance/endurance strength) gains. That high rep work can also over time make your capillaries, veins, and arteries bigger(supposedly part of sacroplasmic hypertrophy).

Ok, obviously you have a good idea of what you're talking about but for us dumb people, could you put the above in simple English?

I THINK this is what you're trying to say:
-High reps + high weight = size
-Low reps + high weight = strength

And how do you improve the efficiency of your CNS???
Play more chess games?

[/newbie]

[Zygote]

Ok, obviously you have a good idea of what you're talking about but for us dumb people, could you put the above in simple English?

I THINK this is what you're trying to say:
-High reps + high weight = size
-Low reps + high weight = strength

And how do you improve the efficiency of your CNS???
Play more chess games?

[/newbie]

He's basically saying that getting bigger muscles by doing high reps won't make you as strong as getting bigger muscles by doing low reps. Pretty much because the changes in the muscle on high reps is different then the changes in the muscle on low reps.

And obviously if you do high reps to voluntary fatigue or pure muscle failure lifts you need to sacrifice weight while low reps you don't.

As for the CNS, when you lift a weight, your brain and nervous system (which is the Central Nervous System) learn from the experience by fine tuning a motor program for that particular lift and the next time you lift it'll be a little easier and more efficient in energy and form.

As a new lifter your able to recruit about 50% - 55% of your muscle fibres for a lift, as an elite lifter this rises to 80% - 85% so you can lift around 30% more weight with the exact same muscle mass.

Zygote

[WBBIRL]

People tend to follow that general misconception. Theres a reason alot of those people are as big as they are. Just becasue your big doesnt make you strong. In highschool I ws one of only 2 300lb kids and both of us were some of the strongest in the school, but both of us played football and lifted on a yearly basis ( he put 6 years in FB and 6 in WL and I put 5 in WL and 4 in FB). There were wrestler bitches that would say, "you only bench that much because you weigh 300lbs"... I would just shake my head. We could be in the weight room repping 250lbs and everyone would watch this 135lb kid benching 150 like it was a phenomenon. People need to get it out of their heads that big doesnt automatically make you strong... I was a bigger kid before I started lifting but I wasnt vastly stronger then most of the kids my age. I can remember my last year of HS, the kids who weighed the same as me in 8th grade only weighed like 240-260 while I weighed 305 but I had a TON more muscle mass then them... i carried my weight alot better for being 40-60lbs heavier.

[malkore]

whose david hyde pierce??

'Niles Crane' from the tv show Frasier

[harv]

You can quite easily build muscle whilst strength doesn't raise too much (think training for hypertrophy), and you can also focus on strength training and not gain the same type of size (i.e. powerlifting).

He is exactly right. I've done both. Diet plays a role too (with size more than strength) but you can train to gain in one with minimal increase in the other.

Also - some guys are big and not strong and some guys are strong and not big, some are both, some are neither. Point being...they're not always related.

[squat it all!]

He is exactly right. I've done both. Diet plays a role too (with size more than strength) but you can train to gain in one with minimal increase in the other.

Also - some guys are big and not strong and some guys are strong and not big, some are both, some are neither. Point being...they're not always related.

the real question is:
how the F did you get up to 405 bench????

[Canadian Crippler]

Don't quote me on this, because I'm going to take a real wild guess here. But I'm assuming he did it by training.

[ThatSkinnyGuy]

Don't quote me on this, because I'm going to take a real wild guess here. But I'm assuming he did it by training.

Ha, that's classic, man.

[Hockey66]

Don't quote me on this, because I'm going to take a real wild guess here. But I'm assuming he did it by training.

No dude, he did it with cell-tech.

He doesn't even have to train.

[Canadian Crippler]

cell-tech makes you bulk.

[jack_of_all]

No dude, he did it with cell-tech.

He doesn't even have to train.

while i enjoy the occasional cell-tech joke, i dont want this forum to become in any way more similar to bb.com.

@threadstarter: more size=more strength and vice versa. the line pretty much always goes up, its the slope that is specific to the person and training style.