P + C, P + F ...who has the links?

[Built]

I believe Maki is referring to how these nutrients are partioned. You get preferential nutrient partitioning, of course, during the post-workout so-called "anabolic window". This can continue strongly for several hours after you train. But partioning is not grand when you sleep. So for those of us who train at night, it's a tricky little balancing act.

Maki (or anyone else who knows more about this than I do) please feel free to add something more specific - I'm entering into the land of "beyond this point there be dragons" in my knowledge of how this works.

[Owen]

Ive always combined my food into p+c with minimal fat and p+f with minimal carbs. Its the way I eat. Other than post workout carbs I dont believe the meals themselves are determined by time of day. Just dont eat large amounts of fats with your p and c meal and large amounts of carbs with your p and f meal. This is a quote from one of Dr. Berardis earlier papers on the subject of p+c/p+f:

'The worst case scenario for someone trying to pack on muscle while minimizing fat gain is to have high blood levels of carbs, fat, and insulin at the same time.
This is nasty because chronic elevation of insulin can increase the rate of transport of fats and carbs into fat cells.'

Now some people actually set up camp in a Berardi vs. McDonald mindset. I think that Massive Eating Reloaded (Berardi) is for weight gain with minimal fat gain. Its been tested on alot of people and has been accepted as a method that works very well. I think Lyle McDonalds Ultimate Diet is for cutting and is also a very respected and effective program, but they are two different things...with two different purposes.

[spanky33]

personally, i can eat ALOT of carbs, and i wont put on any fat. my body responds very well to carbs. i can eat boxes of cereal with milk and not gain an ounce of fat. dont ask how, i dont know. (and i used to be a fatass too).

at the same time, as soon as i start throwing peanut butter into the equation, the body weight goes up.

it varies greatly between individuals.

[Maki Riddington]

I believe Maki is referring to how these nutrients are partioned. You get preferential nutrient partitioning, of course, during the post-workout so-called "anabolic window". This can continue strongly for several hours after you train. But partioning is not grand when you sleep. So for those of us who train at night, it's a tricky little balancing act.

Yes that is what I was getting at.

Case in point. One of my clients is an RCMP officer who wanted an eating plan devised for him so he could manage his food during work hours. He works two days and two nights. He also wanted to put on muscle (obviously). Basically I had him eat fiborous carbs during the night shift with protein and increased his carb intake during the day shifts with less focus on protein.

[Built]

Maki, this is interesting - are you saying that even though he was awake at night, his partioning would have been affected by the time of day?

[Maki Riddington]

Yes.

[Maki Riddington]

An experimental study by Hampton et al3 showed that the postprandial glucose concentrations were higher after a meal when the circadian rhythm was phase shifted. A more complex diurnal metabolic regulation has also been suggested involving the pattern of sleep debt, indicating that the quality and duration of sleep could impact on metabolic and endocrine function.4 5 Epidemiological studies have also shown that shift work could lead to acute metabolic disturbances. Theorell and Akerstedt6 showed that night work led to changes in the concentrations of serum glucose and serum lipids that returned to normal upon return to day work. Other studies have reported increased concentrations of serum triglycerides in shift workers.1

The findings on disturbances in glucose and serum lipids raises the question whether shift work could induce insulin resistancea lowered sensitivity in muscle, liver and fat cells to the actions of insulinwhich is the underlying cause for the metabolic syndrome. The disturbances comprising the metabolic syndrome are obesity (especially abdominal fat accumulation), dyslipidaemia with high triglycerides and low high density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol concentrations, hypertension, and a low fibrinolytic activity.7 Often the syndrome includes impaired glucose tolerance.

1. Bøggild H, Knutsson A. Shiftwork, risk factors and cardiovascular disease. Scand J Work Environ Health 1999;25:85-99[Medline].

3. Hampton SM, Morgan LM, Lawrance N, et al. Postprandial hormone and metabolic responses in simulated shiftwork. J Endocrinol 1996;151:257-267.

4. Spiegel K, Leproult R, VanCauter E. Impact of sleep debt on metabolic and endocrine function. Lancet 1999;354:1435-1439[Medline].

5. Scheen J, Van Cauter E. The roles of time of day and sleep quality in modulating glucose regulation: clinical implications. Horm Res 1998;49:191-201[Medline].

6. Theorell T, Åkerstedt T. Day and night work: changes in cholesterol, uric acid, glucose, and potassium in serum and in circadian patterns of urinary cathecolamine excretion. Acta Med Scand 1976;200:47-53[Medline].

7. DeFronzo R, Ferrannini E. Insulin resistance. A multifaceted syndrome responsible for NIDDM, obesity, hypertension, dyslipidemia, and atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. Diabetes Care 1991;14:173-194[Abstract].

[Built]

Ohhhh.... I vaguely remember reading something about this in the paper a while back - seems shift workers tend to be fatter.

Innnnnteresting... thank you for this Maki. Much obliged.