Need some opinions from Non-philosophy people

[Ironminded]

So as noone around here knows I am a Philosophy Grad student right now. As such a lot of what I do deals with intuitions about language and metaphysics, my two big interests in the field. However, seeing as how I have been doing philosophy for about 5 years now I am some what tainted, ie my intuitions and opinions have been shaped by the debates and works I have been in/read. As such I need some opinions from 'normal' people, ie intelligent people who have not been tainted as I have been.

Here is the case, so does the following seem like an acceptable position;

Principal of the Transitivity of parthood; If x is a part of y and y is a part of z then x is a part of z.

Example; A piston is a part of an engine, the engine is part of my car, therefore the piston is part of my car.

Example 2; My aorta [or left ventrical, if the aorta is technically not part of one's heart] is part of my heart, my heart is part of me, therefore my aorta is part of me.
While this seems more then plausible to me that might be the philosophy talking. However, seeing as how I am unable to formulate a counterexample to this principle I am inclined to accep it. What do you guys think? And Why?

Thanks for your time.

[Built]

Not sure I follow, but I'll try:

Sodium is part of salt, and salt is safe to consume. Therefore pure sodium metal is safe to consume.

(in case you were unaware, sodium metal bursts into flame on contact with water)

[Roark]

seems like a spin on the transitive property of equality

if a=b and b=c then a=c

[Ironminded]

Built- This is just meant to be a principal about parthood, so your example doesn't hold as it involves two properties that of parthood; sodium is part of salt, and 'being safe to comsume'. However something like your example might be; sodium is part of salt, salt is part of CC cookies, therefore sodium is part of CC cookies. This is a true statment so...

Ex; yeah it is a tranisitivity property, like that of equality or identity or value [from math].

I think my prinicipal holds as I can't come up with any counterexamples. a CE would have to be of the form X is a part of Y and Y is a part of Z but X is not a part of Z, where X,Y,Z are some objects.

[Built]

Ah.

I figured it was a stretch. I was just trying to think of something that could be a counterexample.

The other flaw, of course, is that salt contains sodium IONS, not sodium MOLECULES.

[Spiderman]

Too much thinking....

....ouch my brain hurts.




"Shut up brain or I'll stab you with a -q-tip!"

[Ironminded]

Bult- Actually there arn't technically sodium molecules, merely sodium atoms, unless there are different kinds of sodium crystals. And Ions just are atoms, merely with different atomic charge.

Spidy-If this hurts your brain you would hate my life, I live for stuff like this, I love this stuff.

Oh, and I will/might be posting more stuff like this. A lot of what modern philosophy is is about our intuitions, pre-philosophical theorizing, and as I am 'tainted' it makes is kind of hard to get data for that kind of thinking. So, thanks for all your help.

[Built]

Ah, but an atom can be a molecule, right? Although a molecule isn't necessarily an atom.

And although an ion is merely a charged particle, that fact CHANGES it from being just an atom or we wouldn't have a different name for it, right?

I can split a hair, too. (although my memory of first year chem is getting kinda faded...)

[d'Anconia]

So are we supposed to only deal with the physical part of it? Like no figurative examples?
Because if so then you might be in for some problems.

I think that Built might be on to something with molecules.

A CD is a part of my computer's input system, the input system is a component of the computer but the CD is not a component of my computer(?), I don't know if that quite works maybe because it is a little vague.

[Ironminded]

Lol, Built your right about the atom molecule thing, however all atom's are ions. We only differentiate between those with nonnormal charge, that meaning most atoms are neutrally charge, ie they have the same number of protons and electrons, however those with one more or less electron we call ion to distinguish that they behave both chemically and physically different from the normal behavior of that type of atom.

[d'Anconia]

Or how about a bullet is part of a clip, a clip is a part of a gun but a bullet is not a part of a gun?

Of course I see how this wouldn't quite work because is a clip really considered part of a gun? I think that might be a subjective question...

[d'Anconia]

Hahhaha here's a funny one. A fetus is a part of the mother, the mother is part of a book club, the fetus is not a part of the book club.

[Spiderman]

Or how about a bullet is part of a clip, a clip is a part of a gun but a bullet is not a part of a gun?

Of course I see how this wouldn't quite work because is a clip really considered part of a gun? I think that might be a subjective question...

Technically, the bullet isn't PART of the clip, it goes INSIDE of the clip itself. Therefore this example wouldn't be applicable.

A fingernail is part of my finger and my finger is a part of my body, therefore, my fingernail is a part of my body.

[Ironminded]

I think Spider has the idea with the gun case, and as far at the fetus case I am not sure. I really hate cases involving people becuase personal identity is so messed up. We have contradictory intuitions about what counts as a person and this just makes things really messy and hard to track.

[d'Anconia]

Yeah I gotcha. So are you positive there is a counter-example? It's gotta be some stupid technical thing bro.

[Ironminded]

I have no idea if there actually is a counterexample, I don't think there is, but I am notorius amoung my friends who do this stuff for missing the obvious ones.

[d'Anconia]

Hahahhaha I'm done with this wild goose chase.

[HahnB]

Technically, the bullet isn't PART of the clip, it goes INSIDE of the clip itself. Therefore this example wouldn't be applicable.

A fingernail is part of my finger and my finger is a part of my body, therefore, my fingernail is a part of my body.

Even more technically, it's a magazine, not a clip

[Manveet]

I have no idea if there actually is a counterexample, I don't think there is, but I am notorius amoung my friends who do this stuff for missing the obvious ones.

I couldn't think of one either.

[Manveet]

So as noone around here knows I am a Philosophy Grad student right now. As such a lot of what I do deals with intuitions about language and metaphysics, my two big interests in the field.

Damn, sounds very interesting.

Are you writing your master's thesis right now? What in particular are you researching/writing about?

[Brawl]

Hahn , thanks for showing them the light . A clip was used in older rifles it was different design .

How about this , after I drink beer it's part of me , so is the stripper I just went down on ... Now I own that trick a$$ ho , but she's driving me insane talking about stupid stuff . I want to bash her over the head with my cell phone charger and this thread is so terrible that I want someone to reach through the computer and stab me in the eye with a pencil .

[dissipate]

it seems like an acceptable position. not sure what else you need to know...

[Teh BDK]

Cow manure is in fertilizer. Fertilizer is used to a sunflower. Cow manure is part of aforementioned sunflower.

I don't know. Perhaps I wanted to sneak in a crack about scat. I've done it. I can move on with my life now.

[Teh BDK]

And you don't put bullets in magazines. You put cartridges in there.

[Owen]

a yolk is part of an egg, an egg is part of a chicken, is the yolk part of the chicken?

a fetus is part of a mother, a mother is a human, is the fetus a human?

a finger is part of a human, a human is part of the human race, is the finger part of the human race?

Any of those work? This is very interesting, tell us the answer.