"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees"

[d'Anconia]

You get where I am going with this...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4765058.stm

For starters, I don't quite take our President to be exactly representation of the right side of the spectrum.
Anyway, I could understand the President dealing with larger issues instead of smaller and more specific issues but the fact of the matter is that the broken levees caused a.) lots of damage, b.) lost lives of U.S. citizens, and c.) a lot of money to be spent on stuff that it did not need to be spent on.
I don't even like the idea that the citizens of NO were living there in the first place and want the rest of us to foot the bill for the damage BUT I don't see much of a way for anyone to defend the President on this one.

As President of the United States it is his sworn duty to help protect the American people and he absolutely failed this time to do it. Has the integrity of the office of the President gotten so low that it's okay for them to just blatantly lie to the public about this sort of thing? Where is his responsibility? As far as I'm concerned, a lot of those deaths and wasted money and property are on his hands.

[MixmasterNash]

Give me a break. It was only the 3rd most critical, identified national vulnerabilty, not the first or second.

But seriously, NO is a pretty vital port for trade and energy (like, for the entire mid-west), to say nothing of culture and the inherent value of a half-million people. And people in So. Cal will cry for help when the big earthquake hits and people in NYC want help when terrorists attack and Iowans want help when it floods. And we give it, gladly, because that's what a country does for itself; otherwise, there is no reason for that country to exist.

[estropes]

I don’t know, maybe if the local government would have used the federal funds to upgrade the levy’s like they were supposed to instead of pissing the money away it wouldn’t have been breeched…just a thought!

[BigCorey75]

Everything that happened in NO, no matter how you look at it is ****ed up, yeah the storm was very unfortunate (and i want to slap every single individual who blames Bush for the Hurricane, and im not even a fan of Buch)


but even worse that the storm was the slow response, and now we see that they had the info that the levees would be breached, then on top of that the slow response, alot of people died and didnt have to.


I really hop to see NO back up on its feet once again

[Tryska]

i have jsut one question....

would things have gone down the same way if it were a terrorist attack?

if yes, then what the hell happenned to all that money that went to homeland security?

if no, then why not?

[ArchAngel777]

It is all Bush's fault! I heard he was testing his nuclear weapons out in the gulf and caused a shift in the plates that caused this storm! I heard he did it without authorization and the CIA and government is covering this up for him. He wanted to test out to see if he could wipe nations out with natural disasters! He succeeded is wiping out NO! ZOMG! ZOMG! ZOMG! He forgot that NO was actually a part of the USA!

This is the biggest cover up in the history of anything in the entire world and only I know of it and I am passing on this information! Remember, you heard it from me first.

[BCC]

i have jsut one question....

would things have gone down the same way if it were a terrorist attack?

Where I'm from terrorists can't make hurricanes, only GW.

[trunksy]

Where I'm from terrorists can't make hurricanes, only GW.

I think he's talking about something else. I can't speak for him but I think he's being critical of Bush's single-thought will fit in his head at a time, mentality. And right now, he has terrorist on the brain and can't seem to think of anything else. He's saying that because it didn't fit into his all encompassing "you're either with us or against us" mentality (mother nature is neutral), it wasn't important enough for Bush to get his hands dirty with. I'm so done with Bush's Axis of Evil religious bullcrap. Then again, I'm agnostic.

For the folks that are critical of just Bush or just the local government, the Presidential Report on Katrina seems to think that there's more than enough blame to go around:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/reports/ka...ssons-learned/

I hate when people read a snippet on something, believe all the connotations of that article and instantly become experts on the subject without actually going out and researching the subject even a little. I don't claim to know the answers but at least I look for somewhat comprehensive perspective and not just a single snippet of information. As the report linked above states, blame can be placed at all levels of government to the localities all the way up to Bush. Specifically, toward Bush in terms of the creation of a "fog of war" that created all kinds of problems for FEMA long before Katrina. From the increased beaurocracy and confusion of DHS between the White House and FEMA to funding and personnel(knowledge) that had been diverted to DHS to the point where 7 out of 10 FEMA regions had acting directors that were pulling double duty as deputy directors and acting directors and 3 out of 4 divisions in FEMA HQ having acting directors that were pulling double duty as deputy directors and acting directors like the regional offices. It's all in the report. You're welcome to read the report in the link above if you're really interested on knowing about the government's response to Katrina. There's also lots more stuff that you can look up through Google if you so desire.

[d'Anconia]

It's not even that I think it's Bush's fault that Katrina happened. It's that he blatantly lied to the public to try to save his own ass and easily had the power to save a lot of damage and deaths from occuring. It's his responsibility to protect the American people and he failed to do that.

[mrelwooddowd]

I would blame Ray Nagin before I blame Bush.

[mrelwooddowd]

And let's not pretend ANYONE was prepared to deal with a flooded metropolis...

[MixmasterNash]

And let's not pretend ANYONE was prepared to deal with a flooded metropolis...

Why not? What have we been doing for the past 5 years? Why have we spent hundreds of billions of dollars on "homeland security," and yet we are unable to prevent the single most likely catastrophic issue that was completely predicted?

Also: Why are you making excuses for the failures of government?

[mrelwooddowd]

Why not? What have we been doing for the past 5 years? Why have we spent hundreds of billions of dollars on "homeland security," and yet we are unable to prevent the single most likely catastrophic issue that was completely predicted?

Also: Why are you making excuses for the failures of government?

I didn't say they shouldn't have been preparing for it--which goes back to Nagin. It's his city..it's his responsibility.

I can't help making excuses for the stupid..

[MixmasterNash]

I didn't say they shouldn't have been preparing for it--which goes back to Nagin. It's his city..it's his responsibility.

I can't help making excuses for the stupid..

Indeed, the city is primarily the responsibility of the city. However, I am not a citizen of New Orleans, so I can't force change at the local (or state level). The only level of government that was involved that is accountable to me is the federal government, so I concentrate all of my complaints there. All citizens of the area must hold their local governments accountable, but I am in no position to do so.

However, you overlook a significant fator: The hurricane was much too large to be handled at the local or even state level. This is why the federal government exists: to deal with signficant issues such as national security that a state cannot handle. Furthermore, the federal incompetence was spread across a number of states as well.

And forget the "blame Bush" strawman. No one is blaming Bush for the hurricane. We are blaming him for messing up the federal response, for which he is ENTIRELY responsible as the head of the executive branch of government, and both Bush and Congress for the poor preparation and structures, for which they are entirely responsible. And given that the Republicans control both branches and have been for a number of years, they are ENTIRELY responsible for the piss poor federal response.

[Genacide]

... Bush is to blame for the mistake to my taxes this year because he is the head of the executive branch of government, and both Bush and Congress for the poor preparation and structures, for which they are entirely responsible. And given that the Republicans control both branches and have been for a number of years, they are ENTIRELY responsible for the piss poor federal response.

- you know, as long as he is micromanaging

[mrelwooddowd]

Indeed, the city is primarily the responsibility of the city. However, I am not a citizen of New Orleans, so I can't force change at the local (or state level). The only level of government that was involved that is accountable to me is the federal government, so I concentrate all of my complaints there. All citizens of the area must hold their local governments accountable, but I am in no position to do so.

However, you overlook a significant fator: The hurricane was much too large to be handled at the local or even state level. This is why the federal government exists: to deal with signficant issues such as national security that a state cannot handle. Furthermore, the federal incompetence was spread across a number of states as well.

And forget the "blame Bush" strawman. No one is blaming Bush for the hurricane. We are blaming him for messing up the federal response, for which he is ENTIRELY responsible as the head of the executive branch of government, and both Bush and Congress for the poor preparation and structures, for which they are entirely responsible. And given that the Republicans control both branches and have been for a number of years, they are ENTIRELY responsible for the piss poor federal response.

The only way to truly learn, is to fail..

You need a hobby.

[BilltheButcher]

Why not? What have we been doing for the past 5 years? Why have we spent hundreds of billions of dollars on "homeland security," and yet we are unable to prevent the single most likely catastrophic issue that was completely predicted?

Also: Why are you making excuses for the failures of government?

What happened to the federal money New Orleans has been getting? I understand the buck stops with the President, but how can he micromanage every little thing. You have to depend on the local and state governments, they are the ones that see the levees everyday, they have to know the conditions better then anyone. Instead of screaming racism and crying on TV, maybe they should have taken some responsibility for their shortcomings. Ooops thats right the media can't comprehend anyone beside evil Bush, don't you think it is getting old that the news can't do anything but bash Bush. If he was against the Port deal, he would have been seen as a racist and not building bridges w/ our arab friends. However, since he is for it, he isn't worried about national security. The media has made such a huge deal about this, that everyone jumped ship to protect their own asses.

Is Bush perfect no, is he a good president, not really, is he to blame for every F-ing thing that goes wrong in teh world, acording to Newsweek, the NY times and CCN yes. Why isn't anyone bashing the media darling Clinton for trying to help the Port deal go through? You hear it once and catch it on the fourth page of the news paper.

[Tryska]

And let's not pretend ANYONE was prepared to deal with a flooded metropolis...

but the things is - those assfaces HAD been preparing for just this scenario:

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease....fema?id=13051

so what the hell happenned?

[d'Anconia]

I don't even care *that* much about the response to the hurricane except for the warning about the levees. He was warned by several people that the levees could cause a major problem and they were all looking up to him just waiting for him to say something, just anything. All he had to say was like "Ok well let's do something about it", but instead he doesn't say a thing except "we are fully prepared...". Obviously he was wrong.

All he had to do was take responsibility for his miscalculation but instead he decided to go the spineless and irresponsible route and deny that he even made a mistake. I'm pretty sure that's what us people like to call a "coward".

I don't even care about the other mistakes right now, I just don't want a coward and liar in the oval office and it looks like his approval rating is showing that others agree with me on this one.

[BilltheButcher]

He was warned by several people that the levees could cause a major problem and they were all looking up to him just waiting for him to say something, just anything.

Anyone who lived in that area knows that New Orleans has been below sea level for years, its slowly sinking into the Gulf. Has been for the last hundred years. The levees have sucked for how many years? Through how many administrations?

The response sucked. All around from Bush on down, but giving everyone else a free pass is a joke.

[Songsangnim]

I don't even care *that* much about the response to the hurricane except for the warning about the levees. He was warned by several people that the levees could cause a major problem and they were all looking up to him just waiting for him to say something, just anything. All he had to say was like "Ok well let's do something about it", but instead he doesn't say a thing except "we are fully prepared...". Obviously he was wrong.

.

No he wasn't. In fact he was told (hours after the leeves were breached) that they were holding. He was given wrong information.

Here's a link that shows clearly who is responsible for what

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...2/210912.shtml

Especially read the first few sentences. Then the first page.

In fact the federal government had earmarked $600 million for vital repairs..but the locals complained about noise and went to court to stop it.

[MixmasterNash]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...2/210912.shtml

Tee hee. Newsmax. Ha ha.

[Songsangnim]

Tee hee. Newsmax. Ha ha.

If you had bothered to read the article, you would have seen that they were referencing the Wall Street Journal.

[d'Anconia]

No he wasn't. In fact he was told (hours after the leeves were breached) that they were holding. He was given wrong information.

LOL, bro just click on that link in the original post. It shows him being briefed by officials and all that. I don't even know how you can argue against it. I'm not saying that others aren't responsible but what evidence you need to realize that he screwed up and lied about it.

I'm sorry but I just went to the home page for NewsMax and a lot of the stuff there looked pretty ridiculous.

But hey at least we got the Iran issue now to take the spotlight off the Prez. How convenient...

[Songsangnim]

LOL, bro just click on that link in the original post. It shows him being briefed by officials and all that. I don't even know how you can argue against it. I'm not saying that others aren't responsible but what evidence you need to realize that he screwed up and lied about it.

(1) I'm sorry but I just went to the home page for NewsMax and a lot of the stuff there looked pretty ridiculous.

(2) But hey at least we got the Iran issue now to take the spotlight off the Prez. How convenient...

1. As I said they were referencing the Wall Street Journal. A steel barge crashed through one of the leeves and the others were overflooded. Again nothing ties that to Bush or is his fault. If anything the residents of the Ninth Ward were at fault for stopping the repairs.


2. If the president of Iran had been less of a wack-job then maybe the spotlight would still be on Bush.