I am currently aproaching a begineer/intermeadiate level in bodybuilding and have come to the conlusion dumbells are inferior mass builders in the real world for pressing movements for all but the most advance bodybuilders.
I am a 5'6 ecto meso natural for life. Currently I weigh 72KG and have worked up to 3 full ROM incline barbell bench reps on 92.2kg.(bar touching chest) would have got 4 but had 3 **** nights of sleep in a row, 4 weeks ago i was doing 85Kg for 4 reps. Arms are just short of 15.5 inches cold and growing steadily on the measure and I am sure I will get to 100KG using baby steps of 2.2KG increase per week which will make me pound for pound one of the stronger guys in the gym at benching who is not on the gear. I have been increasing the weight by 2.2KG/2.5KG per week on the bar on incline.
1) I have read and heard many times people saying dumbells give u a better range of motion. I think dumbells in reality for 90% of users end up in a worse rangle of motion.
I looked around the gym the other day and noticed that in the real world people just do not know how to use dumbells becuase they were stopping the equivalent of 3-4 inches of their chest, whats the point of using a dumbell when u would get more stretch with a barbell touching chest. I did not see 1 person using them properly. In reality dumbells actually turn people into ego pressers whereby they reduce the range of motion so they can press big dumbells. Almost all these people do not have solid strong looking bodies which I belive U can only get with a full range of motion.
I think the range of motion thing is so important, becuase I religiously use a full range of motion I have overtaken many people in the gym who stop 3 inches of the chest (woman's reps in my book - if a woman has a pair of 38dd's then this is the only situtation where u should stop 3 inches off). These poeple use the same weight week after week and their bodies look smaller everyweek becuase they are stagnating whilst I am progressing due to FULL ROM and baby steps priciples without ego pressing.
2) Another massive disadvatage for beginner/intermediates is that increments of 5lbs per dumbell are just unrealistic if u want to take baby steps like I have been doing using barbell. If i had been using dumbells instead of barbell there is no way i would have added 7.2kg to incline press in 4 weeks and maintained my reps and form remebering I am a large part ectomorph. I see dumbells more suitable for people who can press with at least 160LBS per dumbell becuase the 5 lb increment is then small enough to allow ur body to take the baby steps.
I have concluded dumbells are more suitable to the advanced bodybuilder only.
What does anyone think of my thoughts?
if you use DBs in their complete ROM, they're superior to the BB in my opinion
however, once you get into heavy dbs, i feel its too much of a hassle to get them into position
Last edited by f=ma; 05-26-2006 at 06:16 AM.
It's a very interesting point actually.
However, the truly disasterous thing in gyms are benches. Far too much exercise is done sitting or lying down. I think that DBs are used sitting or lying much more than barbells.
Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
+1 on the benches. I think it's part of the isolation disease that's spread so much over the last decade or two. A lot of core/functional strength is built as a side effect of doing standing lifts.
I take issue with the above assertion. Touching BB to chest kills my shoulders. The range of motion is too great to be effective considering my long arms and subsequent shoulder damage. My benching form is dam good, btw. At 5'6" you probably don't have that issue.Originally Posted by tsmithy
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So you are taking things you see in YOUR gym, and applying it to 90 percent of all lifters ?
Nice assumption. I can take BBs and how people use them in my gym and apply it to 90 percent of people too ....
As for a increase in 5lbs per dumbell lifting isn't completely physical. Sure, in pure muscle power maybe 2.5lb increases in DB's is a better choice, but lifting is also mental, therefore I consider the 5lb increases in DBs to be completley fine.
If you are going to make assumptions, try going to more than one gym and ones that are outside of your area before you try to generalize people like me.
DB's work stablizers, and much more then just your chest. Try to even pickup off the ground what you max on BB bench...
They are good to work in every now and then, and some people use them quite often. I use alot of DB's in my workout's if only for the fact of keeping stabalzing muscles on par
Mainly their disasterous because people all to often comprmise form for weight or reps. They build their egos instead of their strength/muscles.
After I got above DB benching 75's I always use a spot for them. I even still use them on the sets with the 75's even though I can use 90's for 10+ reps with ease. Saftey first, ego last.
Well evertyime i curl i bring it up to my lips and kiss it each rep
Current(May1st) (June8th) Goals(September 1st)
Bench 245 -------255-----300(reached 225x6 june 14th)
Squat 350 -------injured----450
Deadlift 315 ------injured----370
weight 185(stay at 185)
"Pain is weakness leaving the body."
I MUCH prefer dumbells for growth, strength and everything else
I use full ROM too
so true... by the time i get them on my knees Im almost out of breath and need to sit there for a few seconds before lifting them.Originally Posted by f=ma
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Db > Bb
Weight: Not Big Enough
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a lot of people dont use the full ROM with db's - agreed
i feel there very useful when used properly
Its very hard to use a proper ROM with the bigger DBs on something like bench... not because of the weight but because of their size. In order to bring them below my chest I would have to turn them parallel to my body and then perpendiciluar when I press up.
DBs are good, but I think BB should be kept as the staple exercise.
D 435 / S 340 / B 305
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i agree, the ends of the dumbells hit my forarms and limit ROM that wayOriginally Posted by WBBIRL
but i do use alot of dumbells in my chest workouts
I can almost bet that you are bringing the bar down somewhere between your nipples and you collar bone, right? I could be wrong but if you bring it down lower (bottom of the chest or even more towards the sternum) you won't have those issues.Originally Posted by TwiloMike
More often than not most people are going to have shoulder flexibility issues when bringing the bar down that high. That's also the classic bobybuilder bnech press that destroys the shoulders. Flat back bench and elbows flared way out with the bar coming down to nipples or higher.
Try benching with more of an arch. Think of the same arch you use squatting and deadlifting. Also keep the elbows tucked and bring the bar down further on your chest. For me the bar touches just the top of my sternum/bottom of the ribcage. I've had more success with myself and others benching this way. Saves the shoulders all kinds of stress.
Repeat 7012 times before benching:
"keep the elbows tucked"
Overhead pressing with the elbows forward is also a shoulder saver.
Do you want us to do like standing flyes or standing skullcrushers?Originally Posted by MixmasterNash
LOL, the question is why are you doing them?Originally Posted by Andre3000
Well i do flyes to workout my chest and practice flying in the event I would grow wings and skull crushers to increase the power of my triceps and crush my skull because it feels oh so good.
There are better ways of doing it is what I'm saying.
I'm sure what mixman is saying is that what correlation do sitting and laying exercises have on the rest of the body. You want a bigger bench, you have to learn to use how to use your whole body, lats, glutes and lower back all come to mind.
Too much stuff is done sitting or lying and the general populace is working the beach muscles and not enough of the bigger muscles groups in the body. You want to burn some calories, train the glutes. Largest muscles in the body.
The body goes as a whole. If you want big arms, get big legs. The idea in that you are training one body part at a time is the equivalent of training your left and right sides separately. Its an old bodybuilding myth routine that has stuck around because Weider shoves in on the masses with countless magazines and that's all people see. They don't see the physique of athletes that train full body everyday. I'll almost bet you that there better physiques in athletes than just any ole Joe Smith doing a bodybuilding routine he picked out of Muscle and Fitness.
Originally Posted by HomeYield
When I first got into serious lifting I would have thought you were crazy saying this, now 7 months into lifting I think it's a brilliant post.
Originally Posted by HomeYield
but isnt this exactly the opposite of what your arguing...."if you want a bigger bench"???
are you more concerned about the amount of weight you are benching or the size and strength of your chest?...... i totally agree with you if you are a powerlifter where you are going for a set amount of weight... but if your not a powerlifter then who cares what you bench.... care about your size and your form.. i do arch my back when i bench but only to keep my core tight... i also bench with my feet in the air... i can bench more weight with my feet on the ground but i feel i work better with my feet up...
stop worrying about what amount of weight you are using. that is letting your ego get in the way
db>bb. just use them right. use less weight if you can't bring it to your chest.
I didn't read the whole thread just the first post or two. So this has probably been said. The argument you're making is like saying smith squats> free squats because you have to use less weight on the free squats to hit ass-to-floor.
Last edited by Behemoth; 05-26-2006 at 05:31 PM.
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