Trying to come up with a routine

[Jordanbcool]

I know i've made a similar thread but I was dissapointed with the responses. Im trying to come up with a good hard routine too make some serious gains.

Ok, normally I've done a upper/lower body workout. Here it is.

Mondays
Deads
Squats
Calf raises
Side crunches
Back raises

Wensdays
Bench press
Military press
Curls
Dips
Lat rows
Crunches

Fridays
Leg press
Box squat
Hamstring curls
Back raises
Leg extentions

Sundays
Incline bench
Decline bench
Cable curls
Situps
Pullups
Farmers walk

Recently I've been doing this.

Full body (sample)
Leg press
Bench press
Skull crushers
Farmers walk
Calve curls
Concentrarion curls
Crunches
Shrugs
Arm raises

For my bulk though I want something that will really trash certain parts of my body (i.e. parts i'd like too improve).

Im happy with my arms (biceps, triceps) my traps, my legs, calves, etc. etc. Basically the two major parts I'd like too improve are my chest and back. On a lesser note i'd like too enlarge my forearms and make my left biceps bigger (its slightly smaller then my right arm).

Should I just follow a full body workout or upper/lower and do drop sets or something for my chest/back. Maybe even do some forced reps or negatives.....I was wondering if anyone could spit out a good workout or split to make these two spots grow. I was considering trying baby got back.....If anyone has any ideas and or suggestions i'd appreciate it.

-jordan

[WillKuenzel]

You want to improve your back but only have one direct (2 if you count deadlift) back movement?

It doesn't make sense. I see lat rows and that's it. Granted, deadlifts do a bit for your back but not nearly enough to say that's all you need to do.

You want to get bigger and thicker all over? Just keep it simple. At first glance it just looks like over kill. You can do too much to the point that you aren't getting anything in return. In the case of your back, you aren't doing enough.

Monday:
deadlifts
pullups

Tuesday:
Bench press
Dips

Wednesday:
rest and eat

Thursday:
Squats
walking lunges

Friday:
bentover rows
incline bench


Stick with that as your meat and potatoes so to speak of your routine. Add to it a bit if you want but those are great movements to start with and to structure a routine around.

[Progress]

*Cough* BGB *Cough*

[Jordanbcool]

You want to improve your back but only have one direct (2 if you count deadlift) back movement?

It doesn't make sense. I see lat rows and that's it. Granted, deadlifts do a bit for your back but not nearly enough to say that's all you need to do.

You want to get bigger and thicker all over? Just keep it simple. At first glance it just looks like over kill. You can do too much to the point that you aren't getting anything in return. In the case of your back, you aren't doing enough.

Monday:
deadlifts
pullups

Tuesday:
Bench press
Dips

Wednesday:
rest and eat

Thursday:
Squats
walking lunges

Friday:
bentover rows
incline bench


Stick with that as your meat and potatoes so to speak of your routine. Add to it a bit if you want but those are great movements to start with and to structure a routine around.

Well keep in mind this wasent a workout that was intended too work my back or chest anymore then the rest of my body.

I guess the poster under you is suggesting baby got back. Could I include forced reps/drop sets/peak contractions in that workout without any problems. Thats the routine I was thinking about anyways.

-jordan

[MixmasterNash]

I guess the poster under you is suggesting baby got back. Could I include forced reps/drop sets/peak contractions in that workout without any problems.

Why would you want to?

You aren't doing pullups but you're worried about peak contractions?

You need new PRIORITIES.

[WillKuenzel]

Basically the two major parts I'd like too improve are my chest and back.

I took that to mean you wanted to hit those harder along with all the chest work you were doing. But like I mentioned, you are doing only one direct back exercise. You are doing an extremely high ratio of push to pull. You need to realize that that's going to create a muscle imbalance. If you want things to stay even you have to work them evenly.

Focusing on peak contraction, negatives, drop sets ain't going to do **** unless you have laid the proper ground work.

[Jordanbcool]

Why would you want to?

You aren't doing pullups but you're worried about peak contractions?

You need new PRIORITIES.

Its a sample workout. Bascially I just do one back excersize per full body workout. I've done pull-ups before.

Ok heres a workout I was thinking of. A modified version of builts.

Day 1 Horizontal Push/Pull

Seated Cable rows- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5 for the sets/reps.
Bent over rows- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5
Dumbell bench press- 3x3 or 4x6
Decline bench press- 3x3 or 4x6
Farmers walk
Crunches (weighted)- 3x10, 4x8 or 3x12

I would do 5x5 if I started to hit a plateua on any of my lifts. I would go heavy on the bench press doing 3x3 and going lighter on incline but do 4x6 (switching it up every so often).

Day 2 Quad dominant legs

Deadlifts- 3x3, 4x6 or 5x5
Full squats- 5x5 or 4x6
Concentration curls- 5x5 or 4x6
Leg extensions- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8

Day 3 Vertical Push/Pull

Chin ups- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Lat pulldowns- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5
Military press- 4x6, 4x8, or 5x5
Standing calf raises- 3x10, 3x12, or 4x8
Side crunches- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Back raises- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8

Day 4 Hams and triceps

Leg press (high foot placement)- 3x3, 5x5 or 4x6
Good mornings- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Hamstring curls- 3x10, 4x8 or 3x12
Dips- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8

Hows this look?

-jordan

[Sensei]

I think you need to try it. My personal opinion is that more people around here need to be spending less time trying to find the perfect split and more time busting arse on the basics (including me).

Nothing wrong with what you have, but you might consider the following:

Day 1: SQ, Abs
Day 2: Chins or Rows, Bis, Calves
Day 3: BP or Dips, Presses
Day 4: DL, Abs/Posterior Chain

Every training split does NOT have to be cleanly put in a one-week time frame. If you need more rest inbetween sessions, then take it.

[Jordanbcool]

Any other thoughts about the workout I posted?

A good point about the split though sensei

-jordan

[Jordanbcool]

Buuump.

[Songsangnim]

Its a sample workout. Bascially I just do one back excersize per full body workout. I've done pull-ups before.

Ok heres a workout I was thinking of. A modified version of builts.

Day 1 Horizontal Push/Pull

Seated Cable rows- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5 for the sets/reps.
Bent over rows- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5
Dumbell bench press- 3x3 or 4x6
Decline bench press- 3x3 or 4x6
Calf raises (seated)- 3x10, 4x8 or 3x12
Crunches (weighted)- 3x10, 4x8 or 3x12

I would do 5x5 if I started to hit a plateua on any of my lifts. I would go heavy on the bench press doing 3x3 and going lighter on incline but do 4x6 (switching it up every so often).

Day 2 Quad dominant legs

Full squats- 5x5 or 4x6
Leg press- 3x3, 5x5 or 4x6
Hamstring curls- 3x10, 4x8 or 3x12
Concentration curls- 5x5 or 4x6
Cable curls- 3x10, 4x8 or 3x12

Day 3 Vertical Push/Pull
Chin ups- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Lat pulldowns- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5
Military press- 4x6, 4x8, or 5x5
Arm raises- 3x12 or 3x10 maybe even 4x8
Standing calf raises- 3x10, 3x12, or 4x8
Side crunches- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8

Day 4 Hams and triceps
Deadlifts- 3x3, 4x6 or 5x5
Good mornings- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Leg extensions- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Dips- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Skull crushers- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8

What do you guys think?

-jordan

WAY too much arm work (and a bit too much volume overall for my taste) When you work chest and back you work your arms. On top of that you are working arms 4 days a week in a row to boot and doing too many sets and reps for them. I count about 20-22 sets apiece where biceps or triceps are involved in the lift or the muscle trained. That's 40-44 sets for arms a week. I'd either drop about half of all isolation exercises or sets.

[Jordanbcool]

WAY too much arm work (and a bit too much volume overall for my taste) When you work chest and back you work your arms. On top of that you are working arms 4 days a week in a row to boot and doing too many sets and reps for them. I count about 20-22 sets apiece where biceps or triceps are involved in the lift or the muscle trained. That's 40-44 sets for arms a week. I'd either drop about half of all isolation exercises or sets.

So I guess drop the cable curls and the skull crushers or something....I was also thinking about replacing a calf excersize with farmers walk to work my grip.

-jordan

[Songsangnim]

So I guess drop the cable curls and the skull crushers or something....I was also thinking about replacing a calf excersize with farmers walk to work my grip.

-jordan

I agree. But on top of that drop the arm raises as well. They are not mass or strength builders. Also why do you have LEG EXTENSIONS on day four (your hams and triceps day?) Those are quad exercises. Drop or switch them with the hamstring curls on day 2.
Finally I'd drop the lat pulldowns and maybe replace with deadlifts. If you want to put deads on ham day, then do SLDL's.

Throw in a complete day of REST (at least) between workouts. (See what Mr. Sensei said above). Oh and get as much food and rest in as you possibly can.

Good luck and let us know how it goes in a couple of months.

BTW how's the incline press thing going? Any pics?

[ddegroff]

Drop the lat pull downs, especially if you do chins first. Also I would do BO rows then cable rows, IMO.

[Jordanbcool]

Its a sample workout. Bascially I just do one back excersize per full body workout. I've done pull-ups before.

Ok heres a workout I was thinking of. A modified version of builts.

Day 1 Horizontal Push/Pull

Seated Cable rows- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5 for the sets/reps.
Bent over rows- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5
Dumbell bench press- 3x3 or 4x6
Decline bench press- 3x3 or 4x6
Farmers walk
Crunches (weighted)- 3x10, 4x8 or 3x12

I would do 5x5 if I started to hit a plateua on any of my lifts. I would go heavy on the bench press doing 3x3 and going lighter on incline but do 4x6 (switching it up every so often).

Day 2 Quad dominant legs

Deadlifts- 3x3, 4x6 or 5x5
Full squats- 5x5 or 4x6
Concentration curls- 5x5 or 4x6
Leg extensions- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8

Day 3 Vertical Push/Pull

Chin ups- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Lat pulldowns- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5
Military press- 4x6, 4x8, or 5x5
Standing calf raises- 3x10, 3x12, or 4x8
Side crunches- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Back raises- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8

Day 4 Hams and triceps

Leg press (high foot placement)- 3x3, 5x5 or 4x6
Good mornings- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Hamstring curls- 3x10, 4x8 or 3x12
Dips- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8

Hows this look?

-jordan

Re-did it.......any better??

[ddegroff]

Better still seems like a lot of volume. i can't really tell because i'm not sure what rep range and sets your gonna do. Personal opinion I would move deads away from squats. I would do them before the chins and drop the lat pull downs (can you tell I don't like em).

[Songsangnim]

Re-did it.......any better??

Much better. Still quite a bit of volume, but not excessive. 2 things though. Do squats first then deadlifts. It's considerably safer doing it that way than the other way around. And personally I'd put deads with back and drop the lat pulldowns...but that's just my preference.

Apart from those details it looks quite solid. A bit of fine-tuning (see how your body responds to it) and this routine should yield some of the results you are looking for (adequate food and rest assumed).

[Jordanbcool]

Better still seems like a lot of volume. i can't really tell because i'm not sure what rep range and sets your gonna do. Personal opinion I would move deads away from squats. I would do them before the chins and drop the lat pull downs (can you tell I don't like em).

Im not sure why everyone is pointing out my sets. Maybe I just wrote them wrong. But my average or normal set for auxilaries would be three sets of ten reps. I've been doing that for years.....and for the big three I would probably do three sets of three...maybe even mix it up with 5x5. At most i'll be in the gym an hour a day.

-jordan

P.S. After this I'll probably try out a high intensity split/workout that dorian yates used. The kind when I work one body part a day and only do it once a week (one day would be arms, then legs, then chest etc.). He also used alot of drop sets and forced reps. in his workouts.

[ddegroff]

Well you have three different sets/reps for each lift. So depending on which one you choose will really determine the volume. So thats why it could be enough or it could be too much. BUT it does look good.

[Meat_Head]

Don't even think of doing Dorian Yates' workout unless you have a bucketload of anabolics waiting to be used. Almost all pro routines have excessive volume and generally unrealistic workouts for the natural trainee.

Your routine looks pretty good, switch deadlifts and leg presses though. Deadlifts are not quad dominant, and leg presses are(moreso at least). Also there is too much volume and too many exercises. Don't get caught up in isolation lifts, they are next to worthless at your level(and most levels of development). I'll cut out the stuff you don't need:

Day 1 Horizontal Push/Pull
Bent over rows- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5
Decline bench press- 3x3 or 4x6
Farmers walk

Day 2 Quad dominant legs

Full squats- 5x5 or 4x6
Leg press- 3x3, 4x6 or 5x5

Day 3 Vertical Push/Pull

Chin ups- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5
Lat pulldowns- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Military press- 4x6, 4x8, or 5x5

Day 4 Hams and triceps

Deadlifts- 3x3, 5x5 or 4x6
Good mornings- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Dips- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8

[f=ma]

personally, i think having all those accessory exercises is a waste of time

[Jordanbcool]

Don't even think of doing Dorian Yates' workout unless you have a bucketload of anabolics waiting to be used. Almost all pro routines have excessive volume and generally unrealistic workouts for the natural trainee.

Your routine looks pretty good, switch deadlifts and leg presses though. Deadlifts are not quad dominant, and leg presses are(moreso at least). Also there is too much volume and too many exercises. Don't get caught up in isolation lifts, they are next to worthless at your level(and most levels of development). I'll cut out the stuff you don't need:

Day 1 Horizontal Push/Pull
Bent over rows- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5
Decline bench press- 3x3 or 4x6
Farmers walk

Day 2 Quad dominant legs

Full squats- 5x5 or 4x6
Leg press- 3x3, 4x6 or 5x5

Day 3 Vertical Push/Pull

Chin ups- 4x8, 3x10 or 5x5
Lat pulldowns- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Military press- 4x6, 4x8, or 5x5

Day 4 Hams and triceps

Deadlifts- 3x3, 5x5 or 4x6
Good mornings- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8
Dips- 3x10, 3x12 or 4x8

This seems like so little. My workouts would take like 20 minutes a day.

[Meat_Head]

Well look at the shortest workout on that list:

Full squats- 5x5 or 4x6
Leg press- 3x3, 4x6 or 5x5

Warmups for the squats would probably take 3-5 minutes. Heavy sets would involve roughly 20-30 seconds of lifting time. Rest between sets is at least 1 minute... I don't know about you, but I gotta have around 2 minutes between heavy squat sets. All in all, should be at least 30-45 minutes, and that is all you need if you go heavy and work hard.

[WillKuenzel]

More isn't always better. Remember, quality versus quanity. As cliche as that crap is. I like meathead's workout just fine or the one I posted. They're very similar. Simple and to the point. Factor in a good healthy warmup, proper time spent stretching and cooling down at the end and actually hard lifting and its about right. You don't grow by spending 2 hours in the gym. You do too much and you are pushing your body past the point of which it can recover before the next workout.

[Jordanbcool]

More isn't always better. Remember, quality versus quanity. As cliche as that crap is. I like meathead's workout just fine or the one I posted. They're very similar. Simple and to the point. Factor in a good healthy warmup, proper time spent stretching and cooling down at the end and actually hard lifting and its about right. You don't grow by spending 2 hours in the gym. You do too much and you are pushing your body past the point of which it can recover before the next workout.

True. My workouts (upper/lower) would consist of two "core" lifts and 5 auxilaries on upper days. And 2 core lifts and 2-3 auxilaries on lower days.

Idk that worked pretty well for me but i'll try out either yours or meatheads. Compound lifts are were its at.

-jordan

O yea my first proposition seemed like alot (atleast thats what everyone agreed on) but I was just going by builts "sample" workout. Unless I mistook it???