Does remembering more dreams mean better sleep?

[jdeity]

Just started using zma again, which is (was, actually they've subsided a bit) giving me detailed memories of my dreams, which is not something i typically experienced. Does that mean more rem, stronger rem, or anything at all?

I'm not sure if it's the zma, or the sleep ingredients in it (valerian and hops), but it is pronounced, and experienced by many who use this product.

[Skinny_DiezeL]

I've wondered that too. I seem to feel more rested when I remember more of my dreams. Of course, it's usually the more vivid dreams I remember.

And how do hops make you sleep? They're used in beer production aren't they?

[sharkall2003]

No, it just means you came out of a REM stage of sleep. Which isn't necessarily good. Sleeping medication actually prevents you from falling into deep sleep which is crucial to a nights rest.

[Turnip]

Usually I remember dreams more when Ive had a longer night sleep, maybe thats why you people feel more rested?

[jdeity]

No, it just means you came out of a REM stage of sleep. Which isn't necessarily good. Sleeping medication actually prevents you from falling into deep sleep which is crucial to a nights rest.

That is true for some and not for others. If it is true for what I've listed, I would love to see where you foudn it, because I couldn't.

For instance, some benzodiazepines will expand stage 1 sleep at the expense of stage 4 (rem), but not all of them do this. Some stuff will and some won't.

[method115]

No, it just means you came out of a REM stage of sleep. Which isn't necessarily good. Sleeping medication actually prevents you from falling into deep sleep which is crucial to a nights rest.

Thats funny that you say this because whenever I was taking microlactin I would have very vivid dreams but, I would always wake up like I just had the best night sleep ever. I've actually never had better sleep then when I took microlactin. This same thing happens whenever I take vicodin and I also get amazing sleep then.

[chemical Andy]

heres the science of it... you only remember dreams when you wake up in the middle of one... hence most times you remember dreams are when you're awaken via alarm clock, etc. if you wake up naturally, you usually dont remember your dreams because the dream has ended... hence you woke up. youre done sleeping.

[sharkall2003]

Thats funny that you say this because whenever I was taking microlactin I would have very vivid dreams but, I would always wake up like I just had the best night sleep ever. I've actually never had better sleep then when I took microlactin. This same thing happens whenever I take vicodin and I also get amazing sleep then.

It might feel like you sleep better becuase you don't wake up as often and you sleep longer, but you won't sleep as well as you could if you didn't need the medication.

Plus, after extended medical treatment of a sleep disorder your natural sleep cycle is dramatically affected. We actually studied this in psychology and how medication relates to sleep disorders.

[razorcut]

Sleeping medication actually prevents you from falling into deep sleep which is crucial to a nights rest.

Like jdeity has already mentioned, this generalization isn't true across the board.

Some of the older sleeping aids such as Halcion, benzodiazepines, TCAs, and alcohol all decrease REM sleep. SSRIs and caffeine (while not tradionally used as sleep aids) also reduce REM sleep. The newer meds (Ambien, Lunesta, Sonata) have no effect on REM duration and the sleep cycle is altered minimally.

Having said that, I wouldn't recommend Ambien. I've seen it do some very strange things to otherwise normal & healthy people.

I didn't find any objective study addressing ZMA or vallerian specifically.

[jdeity]

heres the science of it... you only remember dreams when you wake up in the middle of one... hence most times you remember dreams are when you're awaken via alarm clock, etc. if you wake up naturally, you usually dont remember your dreams because the dream has ended... hence you woke up. youre done sleeping.

There's more to it than that. I honestly wish i knew more about it to tell you what, but then i wouldn't have needed to start this thread. But, if what you're saying is 100% of the story, then taking something new wouldn't cause this. You're saying that it's solely based upon when i wake - if i wake in the middle of rem activity, i'll remember it. The problem is that i almost never remembered dreams, and the first (almost the first) week I remembered practically nightly. And this isn't just me, it's really commonplace with this product (zma + copper + valerian + hops + b's)

[jdeity]

Like jdeity has already mentioned, this generalization isn't true across the board.

Some of the older sleeping aids such as Halcion, benzodiazepines, TCAs, and alcohol all decrease REM sleep. SSRIs and caffeine (while not tradionally used as sleep aids) also reduce REM sleep. The newer meds (Ambien, Lunesta, Sonata) have no effect on REM duration and the sleep cycle is altered minimally.

Having said that, I wouldn't recommend Ambien. I've seen it do some very strange things to otherwise normal & healthy people.

I didn't find any objective study addressing ZMA or vallerian specifically.

Isn't there exceptions in the benzo class, alprazolam/xanax I believe it was?
What about opiates, are they uniformly reducing REM as well? But those morphine / klonapin combos just work sooo well! lol jk, I dunno how people can sleep on opiates, they keep me up all night...

Sharkall, can you elaborate on the sleep cycle being dramatically hurt? I'm very interested, maybe you could just link me to something. I've had bad bouts of insomnia for many years, and all kinds of sleeping problems. That led me to using lots of sleep aids, which I typically still do use. Just curious what kind of damage I'm causing (not that I ever doubted i was, but it was always the lesser of two evils. I'd rather be dependent upon pills to sleep than not sleep at all)

[sharkall2003]

Isn't there exceptions in the benzo class, alprazolam/xanax I believe it was?
What about opiates, are they uniformly reducing REM as well? But those morphine / klonapin combos just work sooo well! lol jk, I dunno how people can sleep on opiates, they keep me up all night...

Sharkall, can you elaborate on the sleep cycle being dramatically hurt? I'm very interested, maybe you could just link me to something. I've had bad bouts of insomnia for many years, and all kinds of sleeping problems. That led me to using lots of sleep aids, which I typically still do use. Just curious what kind of damage I'm causing (not that I ever doubted i was, but it was always the lesser of two evils. I'd rather be dependent upon pills to sleep than not sleep at all)

All I have is what my textbook provides as of now. I'll research it some more and I'll find some text in the book itself. Just give me a day or so.

[Daniel TRISTAN]

If anyone is interested i was just recently diagnosed with NARCOLEPSY (fall asleep uncontrolably and randomnly) but basically you sleep through several cycles the last and deepest is REM happens 3-4 times a night usually the alarm should wake you up at 3 or 4 but if you sleep late you wake up in a lesser cycle.

But in my case during the night i sleep and never make it to the REM cycle so i can sleep all night and it could be equivelant to 0 hours of sleep for a normal person. this causes me to randomnly enter the REM cycle during the day. I actually can HALLUCINATE because the dream will usually start before the eyes close and the body goes to sleep. Wrecked two cars in a few months.

Now i'm medicated on something called PROVIGIL and i'm told its the same as amphetamines so i have tons of energy all day but at night the narcolepsy gets more severe than ive ever experienced. the only good thing is it made me lose about 10 pounds in two weeks

[Beast]

Having said that, I wouldn't recommend Ambien. I've seen it do some very strange things to otherwise normal & healthy people.

I've heard it's also addictive. I believe Lunesta is supposed to be less addictive than Ambien.

Ambien's also been the source of a few car accidents. People figure they're going to go to sleep right when they get home, so they'll take it right before their drive home from work. They underestimate how powerful the drug is.

[jdeity]

All I have is what my textbook provides as of now. I'll research it some more and I'll find some text in the book itself. Just give me a day or so.

Appreciated

If anyone is interested i was just recently diagnosed with NARCOLEPSY (fall asleep uncontrolably and randomnly) but basically you sleep through several cycles the last and deepest is REM happens 3-4 times a night usually the alarm should wake you up at 3 or 4 but if you sleep late you wake up in a lesser cycle.

But in my case during the night i sleep and never make it to the REM cycle so i can sleep all night and it could be equivelant to 0 hours of sleep for a normal person. this causes me to randomnly enter the REM cycle during the day. I actually can HALLUCINATE because the dream will usually start before the eyes close and the body goes to sleep. Wrecked two cars in a few months.

Now i'm medicated on something called PROVIGIL and i'm told its the same as amphetamines so i have tons of energy all day but at night the narcolepsy gets more severe than ive ever experienced. the only good thing is it made me lose about 10 pounds in two weeks

Really, i thought that rem only lasted a very short period, and that you kind of went in and out of it many times. Dunno where I read that...

Provigil isn't really the same, but is very close and something I'd love to get a hold of (not because I have narcolepsy, but it's supposed to work kind of like adderall (which is a mix of dextroamphetamines) without the speediness).

I've heard it's also addictive. I believe Lunesta is supposed to be less addictive than Ambien.

Ambien's also been the source of a few car accidents. People figure they're going to go to sleep right when they get home, so they'll take it right before their drive home from work. They underestimate how powerful the drug is.

People also take ambien and try to stay awake, it gives hallucinations to some. Quite addictive from what I hear, actually in a newish ('when i'm gone') eminem song he raps about it and his prob with it, it actually forced him to cancel shows because he went to rehab to get off it.

[Stray]

Valerian always makes me have nights filled with dreaming...

[jdeity]

I was going to assume it was the valerian, but the problem with that in my experience is that I use valerian by itself, and by the same company as my zma no less. When I use it alone, the dosage is doubled, and I don't experience the dreams. (now that I think about it, i doubt i use valerian alone on consecutive nights, so even if it did give me dreams (that I remember) i wouldn't have noticed it. I seldom remember dreams but sometimes do, I could've been missing the connection)