Welcome all atheists!!!

[King Daniel]

Too bad somebody deleted the other thread, it was just getting good. Are we not allowed to discuss Christ in the General Chat of a forum? Isn't it for anything in general? Can we actually discuss this topic without flaming and everybody getting all pissed off?

I challenge you, all non-believers, to discuss this topic without getting mad. I'm not mad, and I'm the one getting dumped on.

Here's my question to you: Why is it do you people get so emotional over Christian believes and feel its necessary to try and degrade us or "prove" us wrong? Ask yourself.

Let this one go moderator's, we're all big boy's and girls.

[Tryska]

well that remains to be seen.....first sign that y'all are bieng assfaces, i'm removing this one too.

got it?

good.

[Muscle4Christ]

I'll be over ............... here. *wanders off*

[Twiztid]

Hail Satan!

[ElPietro]

Well I suggested that last thread should have been deleted because it was blatant advertising.

You said:
*Here's my question to you: Why is it do you people get so emotional over Christian believes and feel its necessary to try and degrade us or "prove" us wrong? Ask yourself. *

It seems like you are getting emotional. Sure thorazine was and maybe others, I didn't read through every post in that thread though. But I enjoy debating it but don't try to degrade you. As far as proof goes, there isn't any, one way or another. So I apply logic. In my opinion it's more logical that god doesn't exist so that's why I don't believe. I don't try to convert people, just understand them. When you guys start getting defensive I feel that you may not be as sure of yourself as you could be.

I don't feel like typing out all my reasons again though, there in another thread somewhere way back in general chat so maybe using that thread is better. That's the only thing I don't like about deleted threads, is what's the point taking the time to express my opinion when it just gets deleted. But some topics it seems just can't be continued without flamewars erupting.

Again, I don't put down others faith, and I said so in the other thread. Maybe I'm wrong and just don't know it yet. Nothing is for certain with this subject.

[King Daniel]

Twiztid:
thank you for proving my point. YOU DA MAN!

ElPietro:
I can respect your opinion and the way you present it. I also admire how you put thorazine in check on the last thread. Though you both have the same view on the topic, you state your opinion with a certain amount of maturity and adviced him to do the same. Bravo!
One question though, if you don't believe in God, why did you say you will be taking your children to church? [I think that was you that said that, I apologize if I'm wrong.]

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by King Daniel
One question though, if you don't believe in God, why did you say you will be taking your children to church? [I think that was you that said that, I apologize if I'm wrong.]

Yes I did say that. I understand that it may seem hypocritical but my point was that at some levels I feel religion is still very beneficial. Church can provide a good environment for childern, for example sunday school. It just gives them a decent environment in which they can learn about religion, but more importantly develop social/interpersonal skills. I shield my child from religion, I'd let him/her make their own choices when they are old enough. I went to a United church and feel that it wasn't too "rules" oriented with people being prodded into confessionals etc. Basically just be good to everyone type of a mentality. When a child is young these values are very good, and hopefully with a good upbringing will be able to be a good person in society. My point of view is that I try to be a good guy because I think it's right. It's not a fear of judgement in the afterlife, heaven/hell, god is watching mentality. If my child wants to be a priest that would be fine with me, and I'd support them fully. I can't force my beliefs on others, especially on my future children if I happen to have some.

[Muscle4Christ]

For the record I just want to say, I don't attend church because I feel that it is neccessary, because noone is keeping tabs on the number of times I go. It isn't going to be the deciding factor.

I go for the influence in my life, that instills values, strength, and allows me to keep steady on that path in life I have chosen. The path I have chosen is a Christian path, hence attending a Christian church. It would be much harder away from church without those influences to keep my eyes set on that, because of so many distractions, obstacles, trials... whatever. I'm only human.

[big]

Originally posted by beercan
King Daniel requested that I post his pic for him:

you're still young if you work on your squat/dl/bench and diet you'll be huge.

[ElPietro]

Originally posted by Muscle4Christ
I go for the influence in my life, that offers values, strength, and allows me to keep steady on that path in life I have chosen. The path I have chosen is a Christian path, hence attending a Christian church. It would be much harder away from church without those influences to keep my eyes set on that, because of so many distractions, obstacles, trials... whatever. I'm only human.

This is one of the values I see of church. Please don't take what I'm saying as an offense but basically I see church as good support group for some. If you cannot stick to your values on your own, sometimes it's good to be around others who share your views. I don't think I need anyone to tell me how to act, etc so I don't see any value at all in going to church for myself. Some are strong-willed others require support. I think it's great that some people recognize what is a good influence on them and act accordingly.

[Tryska]

can....while you might find no end to the joy of picking on retarded kids...the joke is getting a little old.

i deleted it. again.

[Muscle4Christ]

Not really the same as a 'support group', like... Hi, my name's Ryan and I'm a sinoholic (lol), but moreso of I am imperfect, and I will slip and do some things that aren't exactly "correct" (for lack of a better word) ... It acts as a reminder, as well as a good influence to go on.

[Twiztid]

Originally posted by King Daniel
Twiztid:
thank you for proving my point. YOU DA MAN!

What? I am not allowed to have my own beliefs?

I am not a satanist, and I am not a christian. Actually, I am against any form of religion *cough* brainwashing *cough*.

I would love to have some REAL satanists come here and share their views, and I gurantee you'd be one of the people bitching to get it deleted, or you would be in their thread getting "upset".

Religion really has no place on this board in my opinion...

[big]

[the_hall]

Religion does have a place on this board.

Some religions are a bunch of crap, christianity is not one of them though.

I'll leave it at that before this thread does get deleted.

[TreeTrunks]

Where do people get the idea religion is a form of brainwashing? Brainwashing is telling you what to think against your will. NO one is making you go to church therefore religion is not a form of brainwashing. And el pie the thread that was deleted was not a form of advertisement. No more than when these older members advertise the proteinfactory and elite fitness in threads or when people advertise websites they are working for. I guess its a form of advertisement and must be deleted when it is something you don't agree with.

[the doc]

i have no problem with belief in christ, speaking about him, nor speaking about god. I consider myself a believer. My problem is with organized religion in general centers around these points.
1)overzealous evangelism degrades others legitimate beliefs. the only reason why one would need to convert another would be because their religion is wrong-this is done with no evidence to support this other than belief/dogma
2)millions and millions of people have been killed in the name of god
3) If we are speaking specificly about organized christianity i needn't remind everyone about the past corruption, greed, and other downright evil deeds perpetrated by church officials

Thus i refuse to attached to any religious power structure. I also do not believe i am a christian either, even though i believe. I also believe that other religions such as buddhism, shinto, and islam bring dimensions to spirituality that are totally lacking in christianity.

I think people get very worked up is due to the fact that christians are trying to seize control of the political workings of the country. People do not want others beliefs forced on them and will fight it. This is the same as during the middle ages. Many would die rather than be forcefully converted to christianity.

[Tryska]

whoo...time for the inquisition!

[the_hall]

I have a good analogy on this subject. If anyone would like to hear it, feel free to PM me

I

[Twiztid]

Religion is brainwashing in the sense that children are born into religious households and "taken" to church all through their childhood. Every Sunday, they hear lovely church stories... and the family instill's religious values in the household.

Sure, sure.. when they are 18, they can choose whatever they want... however, 18 years of being raised in a religious household, your a lost cause in my book. However, some people have been known to break free from it...

I stand by my comment that religion is a form of brainwashing

[Cackerot69]

I'm not mad either.

Before retard deleted that thread, did accipter respond to me why drug use and sex are considered sins? What was the reply?

I personally dislike all religions, I would never let my kids (not that I'd have kids or anything) go near a church unless they wanted to - even then I would wait until they were old enough to think logically.

I feel no need to say anything important because Pietro always has that covered.

[mds_79]

Originally posted by the doc

2)millions and millions of people have been killed in the name of god

This is one of my main problems with organized religion. People tend to justify their actions by saying god told them to do so.
Take for instance Moses. Him and his people wander around for 40 years with no home. Then they find this awesome land with some bad ass grapes and sh it. Unfortunately some other people live there. But wait! they have a different god. They must be evil! So they kill the inhabitants take their land and babes and say god told them to. Bull.
I'm not saying this to piss on the bible, I think it has some very good messages in it, but they are no reasons given behind these messages.
Spirituallity can be a good thing. It gives people hope. Without hope we are all lost.


(BTW I madeup that part about the babes. )

[Maki Riddington]

Originally posted by Twiztid
Religion is brainwashing in the sense that children are born into religious households and "taken" to church all through their childhood. Every Sunday, they hear lovely church stories... and the family instill's religious values in the household.

Sure, sure.. when they are 18, they can choose whatever they want... however, 18 years of being raised in a religious household, your a lost cause in my book. However, some people have been known to break free from it...

I stand by my comment that religion is a form of brainwashing

*** I guess that would catogerize me as being brainwashed then. I was born into a "christian" family but it was I who made the desicion to continue along this path.
I think thats a sad opinion but everyone is entitled to their own. It just shows a little what their outlook on life is.
If people want to know more than so be it, I won't shove it down someones throat. I will let my actions in life speak for me.

[Cackerot69]

Hmm, perhaps that's exactly why you're religious Maki? The one thing I respect my mom for is not allowing me to be brought up in any religion - my dad wanted to bring me up catholic, my mom wouldn't allow it. I appreciate that tremendously. Most people don't just all of a sudden say "based on absolutely nothing, there is a god and I must have faith in him or face his wrath" - so it's more of an upbringing thing, IMO. Obviously youngsters are very easily convinced into believing something, especially when they have not yet aquired the ability to think for themselves, and it's hard to lose those beliefs.

[Pup]

Maki and i basically have the same opinion on this, but i want to address the brainwashing thing. I was brought up in a christian household, i went away from the faith for a few years and through the use of logic and reason, i came back to my faith, so i don't believe that brainwashing is a viable excuse.