Well the AACS protection has supposedly already been defeated and the Full Metal Jacket HD-DVD has been dumped. Theres a video on Youtube by the title of "AACS is Unbreakable!"
He supposedly found the initiative to write such an application because he couldn't watch HD-DVD from his 360 HD-DVD drive connected to his computer for his graphics card wasn't HDCP capable. So the author dumped a copy of FMJ on HD-DVD so it could be viewed on a PC without an HDCP compatible GPU.
Doesn't look good for the HD-DVD vs Blu-ray battle as if HD-DVD is as copyable as DVD is now then how many more companies will be willing to publish for it knowing how easily a dump can be made. The author also states that he/she won't work on a Blu-Ray application as they own no Blu-Ray drives or disks. This is anything but very good news for sony, don't get me wrong because once the source code gets out there you will see such programs surface for Blu-Ray as well... but this could take some of the heat off of HD-DVD.
I'd like to see Sony succeed only for the fact I don't want Blu-Ray to sink the PS3. As far as Blu-Ray itself for watching movies, I own only one (actually 2 because they gave me 2 copies for some reason) Blu-Ray movie (Talledega Nights) and thats all I'll ever own. DVD's can be dumped so easily and are cheaper.
For the record, it took 3 years or more before such a breakthrough was made for DVD movies.
I just don't understand why they can't all agree on one damn format. Its just lame if you ask me.
I remember the fun I had at first when I bought +R discs, then to find out the -R's were the better choice. Jeez! Good thing I didn't burn too much stuff with +R's.
I guess at this point I don't really care who wins this one as long as one prevails.
Yeah I heard about this... pretty funny it was supposed to be "unbreakable" or whatever and some "Muslix" (his alias) had already broken it. I almost wonder if he worked on the codec (or whatever the term would be).
What's the status on Blu Ray being hacked through or not?
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Time to Get Ripped
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As long as you can play the video off it in any way, it can be copied to somewhere else. That goes for music as well, if you can hear it, you can rip it. They can come up with all the fancy technology in the world, it won't change that.
I think the way this is going to go, if HDDVD is the one that can be ripped, then more people might by HDDVD players, so the content producers release their films on HDDVD, and Bluray loses.
With the PS3 barely selling, this could be another nail in the coffin for Sony.
RBB is correct, AACS is the primary layer of protection on both ends.
Video is not that simple, audio may be but remember things such as macrovision? Macrovision threw a monkey wrench in your theory that any video that can be seen can be copied. In truth it probably can, but its not going to be simple at all.
I highly doubt he was involved with the development or had a whole lot of insider information about AACS but with whats available to the general public it wouldn't be that hard for folks who do that type of thing.
LightningUK (the author of DVD shrink) wasn't involved when the CSS protection was created but his program worked the encryption over like a cheap hooker.
Its only a matter of time before both are backuable, but if HD-DVD gets cracked this early then producers may look to Blu-Ray.
If a video signal can be sent to be displayed, it can be redirected. From there it can be edited at will and saved in any format. Of course this is more inconvenient than simply breaking the encryption, but at the end of the day, nothing can be protected 100%. All you can do is temporarily raise the bar slightly.
I recognize that language guys!!!
It's called "LATIN!"
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If you have followed computers at all, you would know this is pretty much a BS post (not saying your post is). The reason is simple: Everything is hackable. In fact, not to long ago (3 years) Sony's CD protection was bypassed with a black marker! They said it was impossible to crack. They ALL say that... MS Vista has been cracked by two difference groups in two different ways. I guess when it comes to copy protection, there is no protection
Read about it here
In an attempt to curb music piracy, major labels such as Sony started selling music CDs that have built-in "copy-proof" technology. The technology was meant to stop people from copying music from these discs onto recordable CDs or hard drives. There's a fatal flaw in this technology, however, which allows you to bypass the copy protection with a simple marker pen, and a recent upsurge in Internet newsgroup talk about this flaw has brought it to light again.
The copy-protection technology works by adding a bogus data track to the outside of the disc, and since computers always read data tracks from a CD first they will never play the music tracks. The discovered workaround is that by covering the outside of the CD with pen (or even tape), the computer never locates the data track and so goes ahead with music playback.
Sony is the biggest user of anti-piracy technology in the music industry at the moment and has yet to comment on this revelation and its increased popularity on the 'Net. Newsgroups have predictably hassled Sony for introducing copy protection that can been defeated so easily.
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For the record, I believe NEC (and broadcom) have developed a chip that allows a player to read both HD-DVD and blue ray.
It'll just end up being like DVD+/-R in the end, but I prefer higher capacity any day.
Everything may be hackable, but even if it is doesn't mean its easy.
HD-DVD's were already copyable via a long method involving thousands of screenshots. It's convince that takes time.
Running 2 or 3 programs in conjunction makes backing up even the newest Sony Arccos protected DVD's as simple as the push of a few buttons and then playing the waiting game.
Video is alot harder then audio, for audio its painfully easy and very hard to stop. Pretty much nothing they can do can screw that up.. it works perfectly with the new sirius radio so I figure if any they would do it and it hasn't happened yet.
It would seem though that so far the program isn't what people think it is. This only works on that one title because he get the title keys for that disk and in the future said key will only be "blacklisted" so that it wont be used again. The other problem is PowerDVD (the program he used) and its keeping the title keys in memory for anyone to filter out. So while his program would work for any disk in theory, you'd need the title keys for them the way the program sits. If this is to become what DVD Shrink was, it would have to acquire the keys on its own from the disk.
Irl, you seem to know a fair amount about this stuff. I read over the wikipedia's so that I'd have some idea, but I'm still a total newbie to these new discs and I'd like to know a little bit about them and such ..
1) What benefits does HD-DVD have over Blu-Ray? Blu-Ray can store 25gb per layer vs 15mb ...
2) Apparently these things can have like 1-6 layers. Will burning technology in the near future be able to use all of those layers?
3) How long do you think it'll take for affordable HD-DVD/Blu-Ray burners to hit the market? (Affordable to me is like $200 or less ... there's 18X External DVD+R's on the market now for about $35 online)
4) I use DVD Shrink right now. Is there any reason to believe a similar program that is equally easy to use won't be released in the future?
5) Are television shows, broadcast in HD, higher quality than the "normal" DVDs? I have HD-TV, and I guess I should be able to tell from just looking at the picture, but I'm really not positive
6) I noticed that when I "back-up" a movie that I "bought" from the store, I have to condense it from like 8.5gb to 4.7. Why do typical DVD-R's not have as much storage ... or am I missing something? If it's because typical DVD's are dual-layer, howcome I can't burn dual-layer?
7) Why are DVD-R's better than +R's? Wikipedia listed several positives for the +R's but none for the -R's...
Last edited by KingJustin; 01-02-2007 at 12:45 AM.
I think HD will win over Blu-Ray, mostly because the players are cheaper. Cheaper wins in this type of competition.
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1) There are no benefits per say that HD-DVD has over Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray has a larger storage (25GB/50GB vs 15GB/30GB). HD-DVD has only one layer of copy protection and that would be AACS, which is also the primary layer of protection with Blu-Ray, however Blu-Ray has 2 more. HD-DVD's biggest +'s are so far that the players are "slightly" more affordable and the content value is better on HD-DVD (which is only the fault of whoever made the Blu-Rays... they have more space and thus could easily match or out do the content volumes that HD-DVD can).
2) More then likely, if they can't as they sit right now that a simple firmware update would allow them to do just that.
3) A few years is as good an answer as I can give. Stand alone DVD writers hit Japan in 99 for a cool $2000-$4000 USD. In 03 the drives were still easily (computer drives mind you, not stand alones) $300 or more. In early 05 I bought a NEC ND 2510A +/- R RW DL burner for $80 and you can now get 18X DVD +/- R RW -/+ DL writers for under $35 and its been that way for over a year now (16x not 18x though). My 8x NEC is still going strong with hundreds upon hundreds of DVD movie and PS2 backups.
4) You might not ever see a program like shrink again, due to the fact that the new formats were smart to include the "managed copy" feature (which no disks have seemed to implement now. The biggest argument for said programs was that you are allowed (in some places) to legally backup content you've paid for. With this "managed copy" deal, it effectively allows compaines to sue would be program writers like Slysoft (anyDVD) or people like Lightning UK (author of DVD Shrink). The Backup HDDVD program so far is useless to the masses and may be useless to anyone once PowerDVD's flaws are taken care of... this is done disk side also so don't think its as simple as running that specific version of PowerDVD.
5) Normal DVD's are only 480p, consumer television is only 480i. The lowest HD signal is 720p (I think, it may be 720i) so yes the lowest HD signal is alot better then DVD quality. The highest HD signal, 1080p, is leagues beyond 480i/p.
6) 8.5 GB is the capacity of a DVD9 (or dual layer). 4.7 is the capacity of a DVD5 (or single layer). Depending on your dvd burner it may not have the capabilities of burning a dual layer DVD. You can do it however, with the right hardware. I've made copies of dual layer dvd's before. More often then not, if you re author the backup with shrink taking only the main movie and doing a deep analysis before back you can comfortably fit a 3 hour movie on one DVD-R with no noticeable loss in quality. If your anal about those types of things, Dual Layer DVD's are down to nearly a dollar each now while DVD-R as about 20 cents per peice for the good ones if you watch new egg for deals. I just picked up 200 more Ritek 8X -R's for $50 with shipping. I also keep getting lucky and getting GO5 media codes while others are getting the lesser R03-02.
7) DVD-R's are no better then +R's. They are slightly more compatabile because they were first. Also DVD-R's are not "minus" R's. They were out first and just like CD-R's they were simply DVD-R's. When the plus R variants finally came out people began thinking the slash was a minus and it became the norm to think that way. The DVD-R's work better in older hardware, anything made in 05 and on should be fine with either. +R's were just later to the game thus not working perfectly in some older players.
Now then you get into media quality, fake media and crappy writers. You can have 3 different 50 packs of lets say Fuji Film media and have all 3 made by different companies and all 3 having VERY different grades of quailty. The first 50 might be top notch, never have a single bad burn and the backups last for years. The second may be horrible, 1/3 of them fail durning the writing process and the rest that do burn right start to break down after a few months producing more and more errors until finally the disk wont even be readable. The last batch may be so-so.. a few here and there may fail writing and the disks may last 1-2 years but long term they become garbage.
You can tell by looking at the media code in DVD Decrypter or Nero or whatever. Take my Ritek -R's for instance, GO5 is a good dye... R03-02 (which is a +R ritek) is slightly lesser quailty but still fits into the top notch group. CMC is absolute garabge, horrid media. MCC is great top notch media.
DVD Media Quality Guide
Hope that helps
Last edited by WBBIRL; 01-02-2007 at 02:29 PM.