????

[sean140]

my moms side of the family is from lebanon which makes me half lebanese i thought it would be cool to see how many more people from this site has lebanese heritage?

[BFGUITAR]

Half Iraqi, sorry lol

[BilltheButcher]

I'm american, but I am curious. What do you or your family think about the whole Israel issue over there? All we really get is the media's version, so I'd be interested to hear what you and your family have to say on it.

[Mr. D]

I'm american, but I am curious. What do you or your family think about the whole Israel issue over there? All we really get is the media's version, so I'd be interested to hear what you and your family have to say on it.

Lets see how long before this thread gets locked...

I am keeping my hot sports opinions about the occupiers to myself.

[markdk86]

I have a bellybutton.

[BFGUITAR]

I'm american, but I am curious. What do you or your family think about the whole Israel issue over there? All we really get is the media's version, so I'd be interested to hear what you and your family have to say on it.

Well, im half Iraqi but jewish from both sides. My grandparents who lived in Iraq were Jewish for thousands of years and lived in that area ever since until 50 years ago. My father's side is pure Polish. My grandfather (recently deceased one) survived several camps including Auschwitz. He died recently during a routine swim in the ocean of unknown causes. We have a saying in our family... The nazis in the camp couldnt kill him, the 4 cancers couldnt touch him, it took the hand of god to kill such a man.

The situation in Israel now isnt as bad as the media displays it. The country is safer now than ever. At one point every Arab nation declared war on Israel and it was safe for no one. The army was new, had out dated weapons, only had 3-4 air crafts. One thing they did have was spirit to create a Jewish homeland where any Jew in peril (AKA the holocaust) can go for refuge. If you think about it, all the people fighting in that war just came from the camps with nothing. They didnt even have family, they just had each other. They faught for Israel, the only thing they had. My recently deceased grandfather faught in the war of independace as a tank commander and mechanic. He told me that the situtation was grim. Theyve got few men, are surrounded, and out numbered 3-1. They faught and somehow won.

After that, there were still several wars. The yom kippur war for instance... Israel eventually became a superpower having a nuke in its arsenal. No country dares to wage war with Israel now. The only way to scare the people at this point is for countries to sponser terrorist organizations. As well, the PLO didnt help the situation either.
Bsaically my point is, now that there is no direct threat to Israel from other countries, its alot safer now than ever. Of course, people still die and its a fact of life. But the chances of being in such an attack is very slim. Your more likely to get hit by a car in Israel knowing how they drive (ive been there twice). As well, there are always soldiers walking around with M16s which may scare you at first, but they are their because they want to protect you.

Im going there next year on a program called Birth Right. Im very excited and not afraid at all. Going there is like going back in time... I saw Jerusalem, the wall, masada, the dead sea, Tel-aviv... Its an amazing country that has developed more in 50 years than most do in a 100. Ive got alot of stories from my family members regarding the building of Israel from nothing. Im very attached to my roots and proud of what my ancesters have done.

[Mr. D]

Well, im half Iraqi but jewish from both sides. My grandparents who lived in Iraq were Jewish for thousands of years and lived in that area ever since until 50 years ago. My father's side is pure Polish. My grandfather (recently deceased one) survived several camps including Auschwitz. He died recently during a routine swim in the ocean of unknown causes. We have a saying in our family... The nazis in the camp couldnt kill him, the 4 cancers couldnt touch him, it took the hand of god to kill such a man.

The situation in Israel now isnt as bad as the media displays it. The country is safer now than ever. At one point every Arab nation declared war on Israel and it was safe for no one. The army was new, had out dated weapons, only had 3-4 air crafts. One thing they did have was spirit to create a Jewish homeland where any Jew in peril (AKA the holocaust) can go for refuge. If you think about it, all the people fighting in that war just came from the camps with nothing. They didnt even have family, they just had each other. They faught for Israel, the only thing they had. My recently deceased grandfather faught in the war of independace as a tank commander and mechanic. He told me that the situtation was grim. Theyve got few men, are surrounded, and out numbered 3-1. They faught and somehow won.

After that, there were still several wars. The yom kippur war for instance... Israel eventually became a superpower having a nuke in its arsenal. No country dares to wage war with Israel now. The only way to scare the people at this point is for countries to sponser terrorist organizations. As well, the PLO didnt help the situation either.
Bsaically my point is, now that there is no direct threat to Israel from other countries, its alot safer now than ever. Of course, people still die and its a fact of life. But the chances of being in such an attack is very slim. Your more likely to get hit by a car in Israel knowing how they drive (ive been there twice). As well, there are always soldiers walking around with M16s which may scare you at first, but they are their because they want to protect you.

Im going there next year on a program called Birth Right. Im very excited and not afraid at all. Going there is like going back in time... I saw Jerusalem, the wall, masada, the dead sea, Tel-aviv... Its an amazing country that has developed more in 50 years than most do in a 100. Ive got alot of stories from my family members regarding the building of Israel from nothing. Im very attached to my roots and proud of what my ancesters have done.

Thats all fine and dandy, but really what right did anyone have to partition british palestine in 1948 to create a jewish state. As is said so wisely these days, if the atrocities happened in europe, why not make a jewish state in europe.

Its also pretty convenient that the Jews used the same terrorist tactics in the mid to late 1940's to get their state. See bombing of King David Hotel and this quote from the great David Ben Gurion in regards to stopping terrorism ""We cannot do it because, as I told you, it is futile, sir, it is futile." And not lets forget the tactics they used after partition to force arabs into refugee camps.

In 1967, thinking they were going to be attacked Israel made pre-emptive strikes and destroyed Egypts feared air force and what else did they do?They took more land that didnt belong to them.

The only reason Israel won the 1973 war is because they were losing the war and US feared them using their nuclear arsenal, so they airlifted loads of conventional weaponry to them. This has been the policy of the US. Give the Israelis, basically our 51st state, assloads of tanks,F-16s,etc so that they never use their nuclear weapons, thus admitting that they have one.

Isnt it hypocrisy that the only country in the middle east with nuclear arsenal is the israelis?The US will always veto any resolution in regards to censure of Israel. Thank you AIPAC.

If israel really wants peace, and should move to pre-1967 borders.Until then they reap what they sow.

They have F-16's and tanks, the palestinians aka freedom fighters have only themselves to use as weapons.

If you guys want a good book to read by a well respected author, check out Samson Option by Seymour Hersh.

And to clarify, i am not muslim. I am actually hindu and know what its like to deal with extremist muslim terrorists in my country, see India. I just feel the plight of the palestinian.

[Doobs]

worst. title. ever.

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

I'm american, but I am curious. What do you or your family think about the whole Israel issue over there? All we really get is the media's version, so I'd be interested to hear what you and your family have to say on it.

What does that have to do with anything? And "American" is not a race...I hope that's not you were implying.

I have a bellybutton.

You too? Oh snap!

[BFGUITAR]

Thats all fine and dandy, but really what right did anyone have to partition british palestine in 1948 to create a jewish state. As is said so wisely these days, if the atrocities happened in europe, why not make a jewish state in europe.

Its also pretty convenient that the Jews used the same terrorist tactics in the mid to late 1940's to get their state. See bombing of King David Hotel and this quote from the great David Ben Gurion in regards to stopping terrorism ""We cannot do it because, as I told you, it is futile, sir, it is futile." And not lets forget the tactics they used after partition to force arabs into refugee camps.

In 1967, thinking they were going to be attacked Israel made pre-emptive strikes and destroyed Egypts feared air force and what else did they do?They took more land that didnt belong to them.

The only reason Israel won the 1973 war is because they were losing the war and US feared them using their nuclear arsenal, so they airlifted loads of conventional weaponry to them. This has been the policy of the US. Give the Israelis, basically our 51st state, assloads of tanks,F-16s,etc so that they never use their nuclear weapons, thus admitting that they have one.

Isnt it hypocrisy that the only country in the middle east with nuclear arsenal is the israelis?The US will always veto any resolution in regards to censure of Israel. Thank you AIPAC.

If israel really wants peace, and should move to pre-1967 borders.Until then they reap what they sow.

They have F-16's and tanks, the palestinians aka freedom fighters have only themselves to use as weapons.

If you guys want a good book to read by a well respected author, check out Samson Option by Seymour Hersh.

And to clarify, i am not muslim. I am actually hindu and know what its like to deal with extremist muslim terrorists in my country, see India. I just feel the plight of the palestinian.

1) Several options were given out as where a Jewish homeland should be. Uganda was an option as Herzl pointed out 100 years ago. I dont understand your first paragraph very well, can you please explain?

2) No one is perfect, of course there were terrorist attacks done on the British. To my understanding, Gurion insisted that attacks only be done on military targets. The king David Hotel bombing was not meant to kill the people stationed there but rather humliate. When the risk of killing people was too high he called it off but Menachim Begin refused. I think this is a petty excuse if you want to call it that, but that's what occured.

3) If you know someone has a gun and wants to kill you would you not attack him first before he has the chance? These antics would be occuring if Egypt attacked first (I probably wouldnt be around if that happened). The first war Israel loses will be its last. Land was conquered through war. If your so caught up on this point than I guess you should be argueing that the US should give up everything to the Aboriginals, because technically they were their first. And the Sinai area was given back for diplomatic relations with Egypt.

4) Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said he wanted Israel to be wiped off the map. Obviously giving a nuke to a person with this kind of reasoning would be silly to say the least. Israel is a democratic theocracy. A nuke in the hands of a dictator is NEVER a good idea.

5) The Soviet Union was supplieing the arab nations with arms and planes. So whats the problem? Two countries each with their own agenda, whats new... You could also ask the question, if the Soviets didnt give weapons to the Arab nations, would the US needed to have sent arms to Israel?

The Oslo accords was a glimpse of hope but didnt work out. The Knesset agreed with the accords. On the Palestinian side Fatah agreed but Hamas as well as other partys didnt. They still didnt reckognize Israel as a Jewish state. How do you deal with people who think you shouldnt exist? As well, after the signing of the Accords terrorist attacks didnt cease. What else is there to do? Its hard to deal with people who dont want you around, at all.

To tell you the truth, I feel for the Palestinians as well. I dont blame the people, but I do blame the leaders (its kind of like Iraqis disliking Americans rather than Bush). Some of the things the leaders teach the kids is horrific. You could find videos on youtube but theres no point. Many of the children are brought up with hatred and dreams of martyrdom.

I really think this situation wouldnt be covered as much if it were two muslim partys fighting over land rather than a Jewish-Muslim conflict. As well, its very easy to root for the little guy...the underdog... Im not questioning your knowledge but just saying its a commen trend.

[Talking_God]

As a Jew, I believe in having a Jewish state..but I think making the state around jerusalem was quite possibly the worst idea ever. Jerusalem should be an international zone controlled by the UN, seeing as how 3 of the worlds biggest religions (albeit Judaism the smallest of the three..ironically) have their beginnings there. Too much bull**** happens to warrant it having been made.

[sharkall2003]

What does that have to do with anything? And "American" is not a race...I hope that's not you were implying.

What is it then? If people that live in France are French, people that live in Germany are German and so on, why aren't people who live in America American?

Take no offense BFGUITAR, but your ancestors simply weren't strong enough to win their country back themselves. They shouldn't be where they are and I think the United States needs to get away from them. No reason land should be given to people that don't know what it means to work for it. Yeah, they died in death camps. Well, Americans died in acts of torture in other wars. But we also fought for all of our land. Everyone thinks their owed something. This is just another one of those cases. I have to go to work, but I'll be free to discuss more later if the thread isn't closed.

I have a few Jewish friends. Some of the smartest, and nicest people I know. Great, hardworking people.

[Organichu]

Guys, stop fighting.

Anywho, I'm not Lebanese, but a lot of the Mizrahi Jews I used to hang with in Israel were Lebanese. Awesome culture, INCREDIBLE food. Drool.

Bill: perhaps I'm clouded because most of the Lebanese I know are also Jewish, but they mostly feel the same that I (a non-Lebanese Jew) do about the situation: it's awful, and both sides are in some ways culpable, and it's tragic that the situation is as it is. Most of them, of course, don't want Israeli forces in Lebanon... but they pretty much all feel for Israel and understand the reason they were there.

It's a sucky situation.

Again though: Lebanon rules! My uncles would murder me if they knew I preferred Lebanese variants of falafel and baklava. And mmmmm kibbeh.

[BFGUITAR]

The war of independance in 1948 is pretty good proof at how strong or rather how smart the Israeli army was at the time. There wasnt any American involvement in the war itself. The fact is, Israel never had the upper hand being surrounded by 3 Arab nations that all at one point attacked Israel.

Even today Israel is one of the top 5 strongest nations in the world. Alot of this has to do with the US of course. If the US didn support Israel, it would be a different place there. But fancy weapons dont make a strong country, its all tactics as what was shown in the previous wars Israel participated in.

[Altephor]

What does that have to do with anything? And "American" is not a race...I hope that's not you were implying.

Neither is Lebanese...

[Blanche_Soprano]

You too? Oh snap!

Crap. There are two more of the belly button people? I swear I was the only one.

[zela]

I've seen quite a few people here say they are Lebanese which is very strage.

[BFGUITAR]

I'm a Serb and its hard to find love from people these days.

But but I've seen quite a few people here say they are Lebanese which is very strage.

Why?

[zela]

deleted off topic

[Organichu]

Who is "we", Theseus?

Serbians?

[zela]

Alright before I screw up Sean's thread too much I'll delete my posts before it gets too off topic

[Organichu]

lol ok fair enough.

ALL HAIL LEBANON!

Manakish! 'specially laham ba'ajiyn.

Shanklish, though, not so much lol. It's ok in Lebanon but I tried some kind that I bought here in the U.S. and was less than pleased.

[Mr. D]

The war of independance in 1948 is pretty good proof at how strong or rather how smart the Israeli army was at the time. There wasnt any American involvement in the war itself. The fact is, Israel never had the upper hand being surrounded by 3 Arab nations that all at one point attacked Israel.

Even today Israel is one of the top 5 strongest nations in the world. Alot of this has to do with the US of course. If the US didn support Israel, it would be a different place there. But fancy weapons dont make a strong country, its all tactics as what was shown in the previous wars Israel participated in.

A lot of it? think 6 billion dollars in US Aid a year, of which 2.5 billion has to be used on defense spending is more than "a lot of it"

The reason we are hated in the Arab world is our support for Israel. We cut our ties with israel many years ago, and things like 9/11 dont happen.

Not to mention US going into Iraq for really no other reason than to protect Israel.

If you want to see superior fighting tactics, look at what Hezbollah did to Israel in their latest blow-up.

[Organichu]

lol Mr. D, BFGUITAR, you guys are being kind of silly.

Israel is not incompetent. It's not the bane of mankind, and it's not as though without the U.S. it would be a tiny, insignificant, horrible country.

Conversely, it is not an Aryan-esque breed of super people that in 60 years have done the impossible and turned a desert into an oasis with no help.

You guys seem to be polarizing the issue a bit. I've been mugged in Israel, so there are unethical people there. I've also used voice mail in my life- which was developed by the Israelis. So there are smart people in Israel. This can go on forever and forever.

Israel is a great country IMO... but it is still circa human lol. Its people are neither superhuman nor subhuman. It's a country that has found its roots in adversity and has in some ways overcome that- and in some ways hasn't.

It's pretty silly to insinuate what either of you seem to be insinuating, IMO.

[seK]

What is it then? If people that live in France are French, people that live in Germany are German and so on, why aren't people who live in America American?

These are all nationalities, not races... didn't anyone take biology in school? Your race doesn’t change when you change locations.