Need help with workout for size (42 year old)

Originally Posted by Songsangnim

If you don't trust reports or research...

THATS MY POINT! I *DONT* TRUST THE RESEARCH.


Reminds me of a joke, play along and see if you can follow the dots...

"The economy is so bad, I heard just the other day that Exxon had to lay off 12 congressmen"


WHO DID THE RESEARCH? There was never any $$$ passed under the table to insure the outcome was favorable to the manufacturer?

Google is loaded with more examples, do your own research.

http://www.prohealthcare.org/wellnes...published.aspx

http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/thisis...503_bigfix.cfm


You want me to trust the report of some *****hat that woke up one day to a BMW in the driveway?

Go take your fake juice, your NO booster, your test elevators and your Creatine all while you have a warm fuzzy feeling inside your only doing good for yourself. Go ahead an believe you are doing absolutely no harm. Thats the same denial thats kills crack addicts.

Frankly, your 20 years experience qualifies you to pass on knowledge on muscle exercise, rest, intensity methods, etc... But without a PHD, no one here is qualified to attest to what these unregulated products ACTUALLY do to us.

This is a sort of rebuttal since some seam to think I am not qualified to denounce the benefits of supps, I also argue no one here is qualified to promote the benefits. Neither one of us are chemist and physician.

Andrew

PS
This is my final word on the subject and Ill post no further on this thread. I bow out and am finished. The above are my final thoughts, and anything further may just stimulate argumentative statements.

Originally Posted by DieselWarrior

I agree. However, I feel if the body NEEDED that much more creatine NATURALLY, it would have generated it on it's own:

And if your body NEEDED extra muscle mass, it would have generated that on it's own too. See the flaw?

Originally Posted by Off Road

And if your body NEEDED extra muscle mass, it would have generated that on it's own too. See the flaw?

Damnit Off Road... Now I gotta give that statement some thought.

Originally Posted by DieselWarrior

THATS MY POINT! I *DONT* TRUST THE RESEARCH.


Reminds me of a joke, play along and see if you can follow the dots...

"The economy is so bad, I heard just the other day that Exxon had to lay off 12 congressmen"


WHO DID THE RESEARCH? There was never any $$$ passed under the table to insure the outcome was favorable to the manufacturer?

Google is loaded with more examples, do your own research.

http://www.prohealthcare.org/wellnes...published.aspx

http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/thisis...503_bigfix.cfm


You want me to trust the report of some *****hat that woke up one day to a BMW in the driveway?

Go take your fake juice, your NO booster, your test elevators and your Creatine all while you have a warm fuzzy feeling inside your only doing good for yourself. Go ahead an believe you are doing absolutely no harm. Thats the same denial thats kills crack addicts.

Frankly, your 20 years experience qualifies you to pass on knowledge on muscle exercise, rest, intensity methods, etc... But without a PHD, no one here is qualified to attest to what these unregulated products ACTUALLY do to us.

This is a sort of rebuttal since some seam to think I am not qualified to denounce the benefits of supps, I also argue no one here is qualified to promote the benefits. Neither one of us are chemist and physician.

Andrew

PS
This is my final word on the subject and Ill post no further on this thread. I bow out and am finished. The above are my final thoughts, and anything further may just stimulate argumentative statements.

Three things. First off, I do not and never have taken any supplements beyond your garden variety vitamins.

Secondly I am talking about legit research like the kind performed by Dr. Peter Lemon who is not in any supplement company's pocket. I am NOT talking about "research" conducted by supplement companies, I am talking about independent peer-reviewed studies.


And just because someone is a Ph.D doesn't mean they know what they are talking about. Protein and creatine are natural. Your body generates 1-2 grams of its own creatine every day. How is that unnatural?

Its no use Song. All he is gonna do is say it is his "opinion" to reject fact. Everyone else here knows you're right.

There may be some merit to that standpoint but only in a purely theoretical/philosophical sense. For example, the debates between Galileo and Ptolemy discussing how science is relative. For instance, "Science" did at one time say the earth was flat. But, to use that as grounds to debase the safety of creatine is just a slippery slope fallacy, as empirical and rational evidence show otherwise, thereby undermining his stance.

Actually, I disagree with song, but I'll leave that for another time and another thread since it would only serve to muck this one up

Originally Posted by Off Road

Actually, I disagree with song, but I'll leave that for another time and another thread since it would only serve to muck this one up

Geez, I disagree with everyone! I still learn from everyone!

Originally Posted by DMedley

Geez, I disagree with everyone! I still learn from everyone!

That's funny...I find myself agreeing with a lot

Originally Posted by Songsangnim

Protein and creatine are natural. Your body generates 1-2 grams of its own creatine every day. How is that unnatural?

Thanks Song, your input is welcomed and understood. True creatine is natural, at 1-3 grams a day.

One serving of creatine supplement is 6000mg.

( http://www.sixstarmuscle.com/product...creatine.shtml )

1,000mg = 1g

Therefore, one serving of creatine supp is equivalent to 6g, or twice what the body produces.

Upon looking at the numbers, that possibly is not too much.

If someone were to take one supp of tine a day I think that would be within acceptable limits. Its when someone takes 4 or 5 a day that the levels may not be conducive with good health in the long term.

Updated opinion.
Creatine: With realistic measurements, I think it would be safe.
It is the result of the posters of this thread that I have done more research and examine the arguments closer.

Now, lets move on to protein. Why would someone want THAT much extra, and would it really do any good?


Andrew

Originally Posted by DieselWarrior

Now, lets move on to protein. Why would someone want THAT much extra, and would it really do any good?

What is muscle made of?

I'm a little confused...isn't this you recomending a protien powder in another thread?

Originally Posted by DieselWarrior

For cheap stuff, try the Sixstar from wallyworld. I took some for a while, didnt notice any problems at the time.

And asking for a sleep "stack" in another???

Originally Posted by DieselWarrior

meletonin is under rated, good stuff.

Where do you get the other stuff for your "sleep stack"??

You absolutely condemn supplements in this thread, recomend them in another thread, and ask for advice on other supplements in yet another thread. That's rather "trollish"

I did take some SixStar Creatine when I first started, I told him that it didnt give me any side effects at the time.

Strike the rest-

Okay. My turn guys and gals lol. Id first off like to start by saying that I do not have any research articles or other documents
that would help to prove my opinion other than my own hospital and medical bills. So let's jump right into it. I have a 2 year
Nutrition and food science backroom with no practical experience only classes. But here goes.

I was hospitalized back at the end of 07 for taking protein supplements and weight gainers.
Here's why. The amount of protein I was consuming was not being flushed correctly from my body due to
lack of hydrating myself properly. And when I say properly I mean water. I was mostly drinking sports drinks
After 4 months of two shakes daily one night I caught a intresting case of tachyacardia. My heart beat at rest
Was well in the 150's. I was carted off to the emergency room by an ambulance. What they found in my blood tests were
A lack of potassium and a lack of sodium chloride which are both electrolytes. My creatine levels were through the roof.
I was also severly dehydrated but said I was not thirsty because if I had consumed the amount of water I needed
Due to the lack of electrolytes I would have risked water intoxication. In addition to creatine. Its to my belief your body manufactures all you need anything extra is a waste. Nutrition goes on the bell curve. More is better until a certain point

No proteins and weight gainers do not directly hurt you. However you better know every single mechanism in your body these
Substances can effect from electrolytes to yes your kidneys if not properly hydrated. Yes there's no empirical evidence
To support some of the claims that are negativly made about these supplements but I have dealt with the side effects first hand
From taking them and not being properly informed about what they can do. Your body perfers live food anyways, why not suffice that need?
Its noted a weight lifter only needs 1.4 to 1.8 g of protein for every kg of their weight. If you way 250 pounds which is roughly 118kgs and than
Multiply that by 1.4 that's barley 150 grams of protein. But yet we got these people who weight 180 to 200 pounds taking 3 shakes a day with 40g of protein a shake. Its un necessary by my beleifs. I fully agree with diesel warrior.

Originally Posted by DieselWarrior

Melatonin is a vitiman.

It can be taken in vitamin form but is not a vitamin lol. Maybe you do need to read a little more bro

Originally Posted by SkyeD

It can be taken in vitamin form but is not a vitamin lol. Maybe you do need to read a little more bro

Your right, I do need to read up on that more.

Thanks for the correction!

Andrew

Originally Posted by Off Road

What is muscle made of?

More than 70% of it is water.

Originally Posted by DieselWarrior

Thanks Song, your input is welcomed and understood. True creatine is natural, at 1-3 grams a day.

One serving of creatine supplement is 6000mg.

( http://www.sixstarmuscle.com/product...creatine.shtml )

1,000mg = 1g

Therefore, one serving of creatine supp is equivalent to 6g, or twice what the body produces.

Upon looking at the numbers, that possibly is not too much.

If someone were to take one supp of tine a day I think that would be within acceptable limits. Its when someone takes 4 or 5 a day that the levels may not be conducive with good health in the long term.

Updated opinion.
Creatine: With realistic measurements, I think it would be safe.
It is the result of the posters of this thread that I have done more research and examine the arguments closer.

Now, lets move on to protein. Why would someone want THAT much extra, and would it really do any good?


Andrew

What exactly do you mean by "THAT much extra"? Can you give me some specific figures to work with? Most lifters and anecdotal evidence recommend 1 gram per pound of bodyweight or 1 gram per lb of LM mass. Which is rather close to the recommendations of some independent research out there.

Although this does somewhat relate to the original topic, the person who started this thread has not responded here in (7) days and this thread has turned into a heated debate about supplements.

I am going to close the thread and if people are interested in continuing the supplement discussion then a new thread can be created in that section.