To Bulk or to Cut, That is the Question - or is it?

Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts

Thanks Sensei and thanks for pointing me in the direction of a great read - I think it may have been more entertaining than mine (!) but the message was similar, truth be told most successful approaches, diet and training have more in common than they do apart.

Your approach is much healthier! Again, nicely done.

Originally Posted by ShaneSauce

Summer is over and school is back, I'm ready to get on my regular workout schedule and diet again.

I'm currently 6'1 270lbs around 20% BF I would say..


Looking to get down to 230-240 or so.

Tell me if I'm looking at this right..

230 x 16 = 3700 this is what I need to take in everyday to get to this weight correct?
270 pounds x 4cal for each gram of protein, so 270g of protein a day and 1100 cals come from that.
How many carbs do I need?
Fat?

You got the first bit right, provided you're certain that your activity will be moderate.

The second question I'm not going to answer directly, a pain, but I'm going to ask you to read my previous article -

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...eting-collide/

and this section of the last article -

Determining Macro-Nutrient Split

My preference is to set protein intake as constant (between 1-2 g/lb of lean target bodyweight), fat intake should cover your requirements for Essential Fatty Acids (approximately 20 g - Fish Oil is a great way to achieve this), and beyond that, it’s your choice as to how many carbohydrate calories you displace with fat, based on your individual tolerance for carbohydrates.

As we go through this process, keep in mind the calorific value of each macronutrient: 1 g of protein is the equivalent of 4 kcal, 1 g of carbohydrate is also 4 kcal, and 1 g of fat yields 9 kcal.

Our target is 3760 kcal. Protein is a constant and set at 1.5 g/lb which totals to 322 g (1.5 x 215) per day.

Fat is set at a minimum of 20 g, but I prefer to hit 0.5 g/lb of bodyweight, which is 118 g (0.5 x 235) per day.

After these two values are set, it’s simply a case of adding enough carbohydrate and additional fat and/or protein to hit the total.

Carbohydrate is matched to activity and tolerance, and in this example, we currently have 322 g of protein and 118 g of fat for a sum of 2350 kcal (322×4 kcal + 118×9 kcal), which is 1410 kcal short of the total.

To hit 1410 kcal, you’d need approximately 350 g (1410/4) of carbohydrate. However, there are no set rules for carbohydrate intake, and you could just as easily split the remaining 1400 kcal between fat and carbohydrate, which we will do for this example.

Our guy will be taking in 238 g carbohydrate and an extra 50 g of fat.

His daily total will be 322 g of protein, 238 g of carbohydrate, and 168 g of fat for a total of 3760 kcal per day.



I do this so that you can understand why it's not for me to tell you what those to macros should be, rather for you to determine for yourself, so that you don't get too hung up in the details. Thanks for reading the article and for taking the time and effort to comment.

I created a diet based on this and its worked pretty well since the article came out. I haven't seen a change yet, but I don't feel like I'm dying at the end of the day... Its not rigid but this is an example of a typical day... Diet

Edit: forgot to mention that I took out all milk... added the 2 servings of opticen as one meal... I have a meal now after my single serving of nitrean late in the day. (meat and veggies... no carbs) finally before bed I down two servings of nitrean with water. The macros are more or less the same anyway.

So I can see around 1000-1200 of my calories coming from protein, and the other 2500 calories should come from either carbs, fats, or more protein?

It makes sense but it seems like if I took in more carbs my progress would be a bit slower.

My activity level is moderate now that I'm not in football.
More time to lift weights!

Originally Posted by ShaneSauce

So I can see around 1000-1200 of my calories coming from protein, and the other 2500 calories should come from either carbs, fats, or more protein?

It makes sense but it seems like if I took in more carbs my progress would be a bit slower.

My activity level is moderate now that I'm not in football.
More time to lift weights!

Sorry, I missed something in your previous post, your protein intake is based on lean body mass NOT target bodyweight, in your case approximately (this is an assumption based on target weight and current bodyfat estimate) 210lbs lean body mass ie 230-240 less 10%bf.

This would put your protein intake at 315g (at 1.5g per pound LBM) which is 1260kcal.


So now you're looking at where to get 2500kcal.

Well the article states that as a minimum you should be at 0.5g x target bodyweight which in your case is 115g, 1035kcal.

This leaves you with about 1500kcal to find.

Read the extract I posted previously as the figures there pretty much match yours.

I don't understand your statement regarding carbohydrate intake slowing progress (which I'm assuming in this case is fat loss) when you're in a calorie deficit, which you will be.

315g of protein a day?

Holy crap..

I get 70 from my shake at lunch.
60 from 2 chicken sandwiches I get at lunch.
Another shake when I get home.
I'm guessing I would have to eat tuna or chicken every night for dinner?

Ah its gonna be hard packing in 315g a day.

Originally Posted by ShaneSauce

315g of protein a day?

Holy crap..

I get 70 from my shake at lunch.
60 from 2 chicken sandwiches I get at lunch.
Another shake when I get home.
I'm guessing I would have to eat tuna or chicken every night for dinner?

Ah its gonna be hard packing in 315g a day.

Doesn't have to be 1.5g per lb lean body mass, drop it to 1g which is 210g of protein per day.

That leaves you now with 1900kcal to find. Swings and roundabouts!

Daniel, I've been trying this approach since you posted the article. I just wanted to say thanks and so far it's working very well. I weighed myself today and I'm down 10 lbs. My lean mass to fat ratio is improving and my strength is rising nicely. In fact, I would have bet that I'd gained weight because It apears that I'm gaining lean bodyweight, but that may just be an illusion. Thanks for this simple plan. I just picked a goal, did the calculations, layed out a diet on FitDay, and stuck to it. Simple.

Seeing as i have done both a bulk and cut cycle and neither really made me happy, im going to follow your advise Daniel. However, i still have some trouble with understanding the following issue. As it is stated in the article, you pick a target bodyweight and multiply it with your particular activity level, to get the total amount of calories per day. Where i get lost however, is that 200, 10% bf would need different calories than 200, 20%bf. How would i go about incorporating that? Due to the fact that muscle needs more calories than fat, the 10% bf guy would need more calories in my opinion than the 20% bf guy, or am i completely seeing this wrong?

Thanks for any help.

Originally Posted by Off Road

Daniel, I've been trying this approach since you posted the article. I just wanted to say thanks and so far it's working very well. I weighed myself today and I'm down 10 lbs. My lean mass to fat ratio is improving and my strength is rising nicely. In fact, I would have bet that I'd gained weight because It apears that I'm gaining lean bodyweight, but that may just be an illusion. Thanks for this simple plan. I just picked a goal, did the calculations, layed out a diet on FitDay, and stuck to it. Simple.

No worries and good effort. And I would bet also that you've gained lean bodyweight.

It'll become apparent in further articles but getting bigger and stronger and leaner are simple processes (distill the science and the processes down and it's still simple) and I like simple, they're just not easy, it's hard work but you sir seem to have got that nailed.

Originally Posted by LuNalicious

Seeing as i have done both a bulk and cut cycle and neither really made me happy, im going to follow your advise Daniel. However, i still have some trouble with understanding the following issue. As it is stated in the article, you pick a target bodyweight and multiply it with your particular activity level, to get the total amount of calories per day. Where i get lost however, is that 200, 10% bf would need different calories than 200, 20%bf. How would i go about incorporating that? Due to the fact that muscle needs more calories than fat, the 10% bf guy would need more calories in my opinion than the 20% bf guy, or am i completely seeing this wrong?

Thanks for any help.

No you're not seeing it wrong it was a slight omission on my part. The formula has been worked out for all bodyweights but at a target bodyfat of approx 10%.
The implication being that for the biggest sample of trainees 20% bf at any weight is not going to be a goal. That's not to say it isn't a goal for some.

What are your particular circumstances so that I might help you more effectively?

Originally Posted by Daniel Roberts

No you're not seeing it wrong it was a slight omission on my part. The formula has been worked out for all bodyweights but at a target bodyfat of approx 10%.
The implication being that for the biggest sample of trainees 20% bf at any weight is not going to be a goal. That's not to say it isn't a goal for some.

What are your particular circumstances so that I might help you more effectively?

Ah ok, that is understandable.

Im not quite sure what you mean with particular circumstances, but i am currently 220 pounds at around 18% bf. If any more is needed i can provide you with it. Thanks for the help.

Ah ok, no problem then. Good luck.

Great posts. I was wondering how genetics fit into the equation, or do they?

Good question. With a few exceptions, no-one is that different that the standard suck it and see, adjust as required recommendations in the article won't cover variances in caloric requirements.

Short answer, but that's it. Getting bigger, getting stronger, getting leaner all boil down to a few simple principles that if applied will work on everyone.