Creatine And Steroids - Wanna Be Big Bodybuilding and Weightlifting Forums

Maki Riddington · 09-22-2002, 05:06 PM

What''s your take on this mods?
Have you ever noticed a more pronounced effect from taking creatine with your drugs?

The following excerpts are providided by the notorious Michael Gundill(a.k.a. Dharkam)....Although creatine does have testosterone-like effects,it doesn't act as a steroid hormone.Instead,it's a mediator of some of the androgens' anabolic effects.In fact,steroid users get far more out of their cycles if they take in massive amounts of creatine along with the drugs.Androgens are among the hormones that can force the entry of creatine into muscle cells.While there's a clear relationship between muscle strength gains and increases in muscle creatine stores,unfortunately,the relationship is not as obvious when it comes to increases in muscle mass.Animal-based studies have shown that the muscles of untrained rats take up as much creatine as the muscles of trained rats,but the ANABOLIC effects of creatine are only obvious in trained rats.Therefore,training increases the muscles sensitivity to the anabolic actions of creatine.(Although it's not related to this article,the study also demonstrated that the anabolic effects of creatine are DIRECT,and not mediated by waterretention.In fact,in the 1970s American and Russian studies pointed out a DIRECT anabolic effect of creatine on muscle cells.)Testosterone increases the muscles'sensitivity to the anabolic properties of creatine in addition to enhancing the creatine buildup in muscle fibers.It's also obvious that part of the strength gains people experience while on steroids are mediated by an increase in muscle creatine stores.An interesting discovery A/S users have made is that they should dramatically increase their creatine intake during a cycle to boost the potency of the steroids.Thanks to creatine,people can build more muscle mass with fewer drugs.Anecdotal evidence from A/S users points out that it takes at least 10-15 grams(maintenance)of creatine a day to visibly enhance the the anabolic potency of a steroid stack.There are probably good reasons for the increased creatine requirement when androgen levels are high.As mentioned above,steroids increase the muscle uptake of creatine,and if the muscles are ready to accept more creatine,why not give it to them?I also think that even though steroids enhance creatine synthesis,they may increase creatine degradation as well-so more creatine is used up every day.That could be due to an increase in muscle creatine turnover and also the fact that an elevated muscle protein synthesis rate will likely consume creatine at a faster rate.Other reasons for a higher creatine requirement may be indirect.Because the muscles of drug users are stronger and receive more training,they may waste greater amounts of creatine during training.Once inside the muscle,creatine provides not only an anabolic effect,but also a rapidly mobilized source of fuel.Muscle protein synthesis is a process that wastes great amounts of energy.Anabolism is an ATP-dependent process,which means that it's essential for protein synthesis.If the cellular level of ATP is reduced even a little,IT STOPS ANABOLISM.So even if you can increase the testosterone content of your muscles,nothing will happen if your ATP level is low.Creatine supports anabolism by providing energy to the muscle...Well fellas,it looks like it might be a good idea to stock up on creatine when you're grabbing your protein powder for those bulking cycles,hehheh...

Budiak · 09-22-2002, 08:04 PM

On the same topic, a friend of mine accused me of using steroids because I had a bottle of creatine. 'Its just a natural steroid!' he said.

The conversation didnt last long, I promise you that.

I'll..umm..advise my friend to hit the creatine when he's on cycle.

Tadger · 09-25-2002, 01:32 PM

Hmm. I'm not so sure that I buy that, but it's interesting either way.

Severed Ties · 09-25-2002, 03:53 PM

I disagree with the author, anabolic steroids exert their effect by a number of pathways to muscle growth. The most important being

increase in protein synthesis
increase in nitrogen balance
alteration of corticoid actions.
alteration of insulin response.
increase in HGH
increase in various forms of IGF
increase in glycogen storage
increase CNS activity
increase in RBC's

The list goes on...

It would be impossible to list all these actions in their exact order of importance but increased creatine storage would end up low on the list.

The only place creatine "seems" to make a dramatic impact on drug preformance is when using injecatble insulin. However the argument could be made that it's the rapid replenishment of both glycogen and creatine stores exerting a synergistic effect on recovery rather than an actual preformance effect of creatine alone.

ST

BUFF STUFF · 09-25-2002, 05:28 PM

a intresting

09-22-2002, 05:06 PM	#1
Maki Riddington Proud Father Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 15,998	Creatine And Steroids What''s your take on this mods? Have you ever noticed a more pronounced effect from taking creatine with your drugs? The following excerpts are providided by the notorious Michael Gundill(a.k.a. Dharkam)....Although creatine does have testosterone-like effects,it doesn't act as a steroid hormone.Instead,it's a mediator of some of the androgens' anabolic effects.In fact,steroid users get far more out of their cycles if they take in massive amounts of creatine along with the drugs.Androgens are among the hormones that can force the entry of creatine into muscle cells.While there's a clear relationship between muscle strength gains and increases in muscle creatine stores,unfortunately,the relationship is not as obvious when it comes to increases in muscle mass.Animal-based studies have shown that the muscles of untrained rats take up as much creatine as the muscles of trained rats,but the ANABOLIC effects of creatine are only obvious in trained rats.Therefore,training increases the muscles sensitivity to the anabolic actions of creatine.(Although it's not related to this article,the study also demonstrated that the anabolic effects of creatine are DIRECT,and not mediated by waterretention.In fact,in the 1970s American and Russian studies pointed out a DIRECT anabolic effect of creatine on muscle cells.)Testosterone increases the muscles'sensitivity to the anabolic properties of creatine in addition to enhancing the creatine buildup in muscle fibers.It's also obvious that part of the strength gains people experience while on steroids are mediated by an increase in muscle creatine stores.An interesting discovery A/S users have made is that they should dramatically increase their creatine intake during a cycle to boost the potency of the steroids.Thanks to creatine,people can build more muscle mass with fewer drugs.Anecdotal evidence from A/S users points out that it takes at least 10-15 grams(maintenance)of creatine a day to visibly enhance the the anabolic potency of a steroid stack.There are probably good reasons for the increased creatine requirement when androgen levels are high.As mentioned above,steroids increase the muscle uptake of creatine,and if the muscles are ready to accept more creatine,why not give it to them?I also think that even though steroids enhance creatine synthesis,they may increase creatine degradation as well-so more creatine is used up every day.That could be due to an increase in muscle creatine turnover and also the fact that an elevated muscle protein synthesis rate will likely consume creatine at a faster rate.Other reasons for a higher creatine requirement may be indirect.Because the muscles of drug users are stronger and receive more training,they may waste greater amounts of creatine during training.Once inside the muscle,creatine provides not only an anabolic effect,but also a rapidly mobilized source of fuel.Muscle protein synthesis is a process that wastes great amounts of energy.Anabolism is an ATP-dependent process,which means that it's essential for protein synthesis.If the cellular level of ATP is reduced even a little,IT STOPS ANABOLISM.So even if you can increase the testosterone content of your muscles,nothing will happen if your ATP level is low.Creatine supports anabolism by providing energy to the muscle...Well fellas,it looks like it might be a good idea to stock up on creatine when you're grabbing your protein powder for those bulking cycles,hehheh... __________________ Maki Fit Blog At Large: Optimize Your Body \| Dynamic Conditioning \| My articles on Wannabebig "Soli Deo Gloria" "Test all things; hold fast what is good.": 1 Thessalonians 5:21 "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Romans 7:14-25 "Judo is not about strength. Yet in the learning curve, all Judokas get strong. Only with time do you learn where to apply that strength." The Art of Judo

09-25-2002, 01:32 PM	#3
Tadger Lazy Mexican Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Northern Idaho Posts: 1,397	Hmm. I'm not so sure that I buy that, but it's interesting either way. __________________ "We cannot but pity the boy who has never fired a gun; he is no more humane, while his education has been sadly neglected." -Henry David Thoreau "For the last ten years, Saddam has been building, stockpiling and hiding weapons all over the ****in desert, while laughing at the UN. As soon as Bush says, 'That's it we're comin in to kick your ass,' and the UN is inches away from supporting him. Saddam turns around and says, 'Um... United Nations.... sure, we'll let the weapons inspectors in.... no terms or conditions.' The United Nations.... being the left-wing, pansy-ass, limp-wristed, liberal bastards they are, turn around and believe him." -Col. Foreman, USAF email: tadger@wannabebig.com secure email: tadger@cyber-rights.net

09-25-2002, 03:53 PM	#4
Severed Ties Always in the Action Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Taj Mahal Posts: 3,746	I disagree with the author, anabolic steroids exert their effect by a number of pathways to muscle growth. The most important being increase in protein synthesis increase in nitrogen balance alteration of corticoid actions. alteration of insulin response. increase in HGH increase in various forms of IGF increase in glycogen storage increase CNS activity increase in RBC's The list goes on... It would be impossible to list all these actions in their exact order of importance but increased creatine storage would end up low on the list. The only place creatine "seems" to make a dramatic impact on drug preformance is when using injecatble insulin. However the argument could be made that it's the rapid replenishment of both glycogen and creatine stores exerting a synergistic effect on recovery rather than an actual preformance effect of creatine alone. ST __________________ "Your bench makes Jesus cry." -Chris Russow This is 10% luck, 15% skill, 20% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure and 50% pain, and 100% reason to remember the name...

09-25-2002, 05:28 PM	#5
BUFF STUFF Anabolic Answer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast of AstalaVista™ Posts: 1,656	a intresting __________________ To get good at most things takes 2-4 years i.e BodyBuilding, Martial Arts, Musical Instrements ect. To Master it, takes a life time - Buff Stuff The answer to every query is, of course, "squats". - drew *BUFF*

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09-22-2002, 08:04 PM	#2
Budiak Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The discard pile. Posts: 8,614	On the same topic, a friend of mine accused me of using steroids because I had a bottle of creatine. 'Its just a natural steroid!' he said. The conversation didnt last long, I promise you that. I'll..umm..advise my friend to hit the creatine when he's on cycle.