The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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Thread: diet..

  1. #1
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    diet..

    If I wanna bulk in muscle ASAP weighing in a 155 now 5'11''
    How many calories should i take in? 3500-4000 a good range?
    I wanna weigh in at 170 ASAP with lean cut muscle.

    What I'm guessing is
    180-200 Grams protein.
    3500-4000 calories


    Clueless about the carbs...

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  3. #2
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    What are you eating right now?
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  4. #3
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    right now im on a ****ty diet that consists of <2000 calories.. shortly i will be making the switch..

  5. #4
    indomitable will.
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    Here's how you figure it out. Weigh yourself consistently (first thing in the morning once a week is good). Then, consistently eat the same number of calories each day.

    Do this for a week or two.

    If your weight isn't increasing at all (a rate of 0.5-1lb per week is good), add 250-500 more calories.

    Do this for a week or two.

    If your weight isn't increasing at all (a rate of 0.5-1lb per week is good), add 250-500 more calories.

    Do this for a week or two.

    If your weight isn't increasing at all (a rate of 0.5-1lb per week is good), add 250-500 more calories.

    etc.
    Last edited by Outshine; 08-20-2007 at 09:22 AM.

  6. #5
    cakin Cirino83's Avatar
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    ^^ what he said as far as calories. As far as fats..keep them at .5g/lb, protein 1.5g/lb and carbs at whatever fits into your caloric goal.

  7. #6
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adam420 View Post
    right now im on a ****ty diet that consists of <2000 calories.. shortly i will be making the switch..
    So you intend on doubling your food intake overnight? One of two things is going to happen:

    1. You'll get fat.

    2. You'll be so sick of eating that you won't even have time to get fat before you give up.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  8. #7
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    On a side note, when you increase your overall calories, you may want to increase your overall fats and proteins while decreasing carbs. You can get most of them before and after a workout. Dont forgo them completely, but excess carbs is the quickest way to add unwanted body fat.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  9. #8
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    On a side note, when you increase your overall calories, you may want to increase your overall fats and proteins while decreasing carbs. You can get most of them before and after a workout. Dont forgo them completely, but excess carbs is the quickest way to add unwanted body fat.
    But excess protein and fats won't? Care to explain? Excess calories of any sort will make you fat.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  10. #9
    5-0-9 Barbell WORLD's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what your huge rush is, but I would slow down a little bit. Gaining that much muscle is not going to happen over night. Your trying to make a lifestyle change, and that's something that you will have to work in slowly. Listen to what Deeder and Outshine said.
    You said it yourself, your clueless about carbs, which basically means your clueless about calories in general. Read a few of the stickies and articles on this site, and you'll definetely have a better understanding about what you need to do. Bodybuilding is something you simply have to understand.

    Good luck bud.
    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." - John Calvin Coolidge

    9 months-20lb gains! (2005 Newbie gains)-A bit of motivation for beginners

    August 2008 Progress Pics

  11. #10
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    But excess protein and fats won't? Care to explain? Excess calories of any sort will make you fat.

    Indeed, Carbohydrates are your bodies first choice of energy for intense, short duration exercise, but working out with weights may not burn all that many calories anyways. Maybe 300-500 calories per hour depending on some variables. This is why many people have Protein + Fat during the day and Protein + Carbs before and after a workout.

    It makes sense to cut carbs from your diet somewhat since theyre easily converted to fat when they arent needed for immediate energy and theres no room in your muscles to store them. And when theres no carbs for energy, your body shifts into using fat. This seems more pratical for body composition reasons. And as you know, if you are still getting enough calories and protein while progressing on weights, you will get bigger.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  12. #11
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Indeed, Carbohydrates are your bodies first choice of energy for intense, short duration exercise, but working out with weights may not burn all that many calories anyways. Maybe 300-500 calories per hour depending on some variables. This is why many people have Protein + Fat during the day and Protein + Carbs before and after a workout.

    No, many people save their carbs for pre and post workout meals because they are cutting and want to have energy for their workouts. What does how many calories you burn lifting weights have to do with eating carbs?

    It makes sense to cut carbs from your diet somewhat since theyre easily converted to fat when they arent needed for immediate energy and theres no room in your muscles to store them. And when theres no carbs for energy, your body shifts into using fat. This seems more pratical for body composition reasons. And as you know, if you are still getting enough calories and protein while progressing on weights, you will get bigger.

    So fat and protein aren't "easily converted to fat"?? You do realize there's more to carbs than dextrose in a shake right? You could have some potatoes, rice, oats or other 'lower' GI carbs when you're not going to workout. Do you really think that the body will start using your fat stores for energy while you're eating fats and proteins just because you haven't disgested any carbs?
    There's nothing wrong with eating carbs. Especially on a bulk. I take in 300+ grams of carbs most days...
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  13. #12
    indomitable will.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    I take in 300+ grams of carbs most days...
    I'm currently eating 275 grams of carbs per day at the end of a cut.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Indeed, Carbohydrates are your bodies first choice of energy for intense, short duration exercise, but working out with weights may not burn all that many calories anyways. Maybe 300-500 calories per hour depending on some variables. This is why many people have Protein + Fat during the day and Protein + Carbs before and after a workout.

    It makes sense to cut carbs from your diet somewhat since they're easily converted to fat when they arent needed for immediate energy and theres no room in your muscles to store them. And when theres no carbs for energy, your body shifts into using fat. This seems more practical for body composition reasons. And as you know, if you are still getting enough calories and protein while progressing on weights, you will get bigger.
    If there are no carbs anaerobic and aerobic performance will suffer. The body will enter a ketogenic state.The body is much more likely to become dehydrated due to increased protein hydrolysis. Fatigue can become a constant.
    Proteins use as a energy substrate will increase. for the body to maintain stable and constant blood glucose levels. Amino acids originating from the muscular system must be converted to glucose through gluconeogenesis. In which case is BAD for any bulk.

    Your body will not "shift" to using fat. Carbohydrate will remain the only macro possible to be used as an energy substrate for generation of ATP anaerobically.

    And the body will always "technically" have some carbs for use. Look at the Cori cycle for example.

    In the end lipogensis affects both protein and carbohydrates. So their "both easily converted to fat".

  15. #14
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    There's nothing wrong with eating carbs. Especially on a bulk. I take in 300+ grams of carbs most days...
    Because, if you burn 300 calories for working out, how many grams of carbs is that that you need?

    Without excess carbs, fat is used as energy. Excess protein can be lost in urine.

    Lemme ask you this, what happens when your muscles and liver cannot use any more carbs?


    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor M. View Post
    If there are no carbs anaerobic and aerobic performance will suffer. The body will enter a ketogenic state.The body is much more likely to become dehydrated due to increased protein hydrolysis. Fatigue can become a constant.
    Proteins use as a energy substrate will increase. for the body to maintain stable and constant blood glucose levels. Amino acids originating from the muscular system must be converted to glucose through gluconeogenesis. In which case is BAD for any bulk.

    Your body will not "shift" to using fat. Carbohydrate will remain the only macro possible to be used as an energy substrate for generation of ATP anaerobically.

    And the body will always "technically" have some carbs for use. Look at the Cori cycle for example.

    In the end lipogensis affects both protein and carbohydrates. So their "both easily converted to fat".

    Actually, your body does shift to using fat as energy. Thats the whole point of a "starvation mode" Look that up. Your body saves fat in order to live off of it later as ENERGY.

    This is why you have carbs pre and post workouts. You simply dont go into a ketogenic state. I never said to have "no carbs". I said a limit on them is a good idea.

    Your workouts will also NOT suffer since you are getting pre and post carbs..but again, I did mention to do that

    So while everything you said was true, it was assuming you were depleted of carbs entirely..you seem to have overlooked the importance of Pre and Post Carbohydrates. Pre carbs that are easily digested allow for the generation of ATP anaerobically for your workouts. And then you get more after the workout.
    Last edited by RichMcGuire; 08-20-2007 at 03:56 PM.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  16. #15
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Because, if you burn 300 calories for working out, how many grams of carbs is that that you need?

    What is your opposition to eating carbs throughout the day?

    Without excess carbs, fat is used as energy. Excess protein can be lost in urine.

    If you're eating over maintenance calories your body will not use up fat stores. Regardless of what you eat. Sorry to burst your bubble.

    Lemme ask you this, what happens when your muscles and liver cannot use any more carbs?

    Uhh... What?



    Actually, your body does shift to using fat as energy. Thats the whole point of a "starvation mode" Look that up. Your body saves fat in order to live off of it later as ENERGY.

    NOT IF YOU'RE EATING ABOVE MAINTENANCE.

    This is why you have carbs pre and post workouts. You simply dont go into a ketogenic state. I never said to have "no carbs". I said a limit on them is a good idea.

    Your workouts will also NOT suffer since you are getting pre and post carbs..but again, I did mention to do that

    So while everything you said was true, it was assuming you were depleted of carbs entirely..you seem to have overlooked the importance of Pre and Post Carbohydrates. Pre carbs that are easily digested allow for the generation of ATP anaerobically for your workouts. And then you get more after the workout.
    Please tell me you're just trying to get under my skin....
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  17. #16
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Please tell me you're just trying to get under my skin....
    I dont have any opposition about eating carbs throughout the day. I just think they should be limited except for the pre and post meals.

    If you eat above maintenance and have excess carbs, youll be more likely to store body fat. I hate to burst your bubble as well but you dont seem to understand a very simple concept. Excess carbs are stored as fat when your muscles and liver can no longer hold anymore.

    Uhh what? I was looking for an answer. Lemme give you a hint. The answers right above I bolded it for you too!

    I used the starvation mode as an example of fat being used for energy. Thats all.. It wasnt even a reply to you.

    Im not trying to get under your skin. But I doubt youll be willing to debate science when your general solution is to eat and eat and eat. Its a completely different spectrum.
    Last edited by RichMcGuire; 08-20-2007 at 04:27 PM.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Because, if you burn 300 calories for working out, how many grams of carbs is that that you need?

    Without excess carbs, fat is used as energy. Excess protein can be lost in urine.

    Lemme ask you this, what happens when your muscles and liver cannot use any more carbs?





    Actually, your body does shift to using fat as energy. Thats the whole point of a "starvation mode" Look that up. Your body saves fat in order to live off of it later as ENERGY.

    This is why you have carbs pre and post workouts. You simply dont go into a ketogenic state. I never said to have "no carbs". I said a limit on them is a good idea.

    Your workouts will also NOT suffer since you are getting pre and post carbs..but again, I did mention to do that

    So while everything you said was true, it was assuming you were depleted of carbs entirely..you seem to have overlooked the importance of Pre and Post Carbohydrates. Pre carbs that are easily digested allow for the generation of ATP anaerobically for your workouts. And then you get more after the workout.
    Excess protein lost in the urine? Thats Not quite correct. After deanimation(the process at which it looses its nitrogen) is what forms urea. Once this is done it will either be converted to carbs or lipids. It can also at sometimes be used directly for energy production.

    "starvation mode" is a reduction in BMR/RMR. It has a strong connection with leptin levels. Generally speaking when leptin levels begin to fall the body compensates by down-regulating metabolism and increasing hunger. Of course leptin isn't the only hormone that is involved. Of course we can not forget about Leptin resistance (as in many highly overweight people) it can lead to a noticeable negitive affect on weight loss.
    So, What does that have to do with this? As this person was bulking if I remember correctly.

    I'm not quite sure I understand your point. I never debated the body's greater capacity to use fat as an energy substrate during aerobic conditions. This is where the increase in fat utilization occurs. Although, no performance benefit has ever been found from this.

    Pre and post workout are not enough to sustain near maximum capacity of glycogen. Look at glycogen replenishment times. As you can see it takes quite some time to "refuel" glycogen stores. Meaning, carbs around the workout alone are not optimum. Especially considering that a High GI carb prior to exercise dramatically reduces performance. So again, pre workout carb intake would have to remain slow digesting Low GI. So, you would still be going into the workout "ill prepared" and glycogen levels low.

    You seamed to not debate the process of lipogenesis. In which case I assume you are no longer making the argument that carbs are stored as fat easier. If this is the case then why would you want to sacrifice carb intake? Because it will have a detrimental affect on performance with no actual benefit.
    People who don't know how to keep themselves healthy ought to have the decency to get themselves buried, and not waste time about it.
    Henrik Ibsen

  19. #18
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    I dont have any opposition about eating carbs throughout the day. I just think they should be limited except for the pre and post meals.
    What for? So you can feel like crap all day with no energy?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    If you eat above maintenance and have excess carbs, youll be more likely to store body fat. I hate to burst your bubble as well but you dont seem to understand a very simple concept. Excess carbs are stored as fat when your muscles and liver can no longer hold anymore.

    Uhh what? I was looking for an answer. Lemme give you a hint. The answers right above I bolded it for you too!

    I used the starvation mode as an example of fat being used for energy. Thats all.. It wasnt even a reply to you.
    Ok, excess carbs will be stored as fat. Yes I agree... What will excess fats and proteins be stored as?

    Just so we get this straight... In my question above, I'm talking about fats that you ingest, not fat stored in your body.

    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Im not trying to get under your skin. But I doubt youll be willing to debate science when your general solution is to eat and eat and eat. Its a completely different spectrum.
    No need to try to belittle me. I think my results since joining this forum speak for themselves. I understand bulking and cutting and I understand basic nutritional concepts. Ie: If you eat above maintenance, you will store fat. Never burn fat. Regardless of what your macro-nutrient breakdown is throughout the day.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  20. #19
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor M. View Post
    Excess protein lost in the urine? Thats Not quite correct. After deanimation(the process at which it looses its nitrogen) is what forms urea. Once this is done it will either be converted to carbs or lipids. It can also at sometimes be used directly for energy production.

    "starvation mode" is a reduction in BMR/RMR. It has a strong connection with leptin levels. Generally speaking when leptin levels begin to fall the body compensates by down-regulating metabolism and increasing hunger. Of course leptin isn't the only hormone that is involved. Of course we can not forget about Leptin resistance (as in many highly overweight people) it can lead to a noticeable negitive affect on weight loss.
    So, What does that have to do with this? As this person was bulking if I remember correctly.

    I'm not quite sure I understand your point. I never debated the body's greater capacity to use fat as an energy substrate during aerobic conditions. This is where the increase in fat utilization occurs. Although, no performance benefit has ever been found from this.

    Pre and post workout are not enough to sustain near maximum capacity of glycogen. Look at glycogen replenishment times. As you can see it takes quite some time to "refuel" glycogen stores. Meaning, carbs around the workout alone are not optimum. Especially considering that a High GI carb prior to exercise dramatically reduces performance. So again, pre workout carb intake would have to remain slow digesting Low GI. So, you would still be going into the workout "ill prepared" and glycogen levels low.

    You seamed to not debate the process of lipogenesis. In which case I assume you are no longer making the argument that carbs are stored as fat easier. If this is the case then why would you want to sacrifice carb intake? Because it will have a detrimental affect on performance with no actual benefit.
    How many carbohydrates can a person store on average?

    What carbohydrates are you referring to for pre and post workouts?

    How many carbohydrates are we talking about pre and post workouts?

    How long of a workout and what loading parameters are being used for your desriptions?

    Where did I say to completely get rid of carbs?

    Why do people lose body fat when they take out a large portion of their carbohydrates?

    I think you should answer these questions before going any further.
    Youre arguing an extreme when Im arguing a medium.

    I also think you should look at the same question here: What happens when your muscles and liver can no longer store any more carbs? This answer is my point. They are stored as body fat. So can you see why a LIMIT is a good idea? Or are you suggesting we can eat thousands of grams of carbs a day?
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  21. #20
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    How many carbohydrates can a person store on average?

    What carbohydrates are you referring to for pre and post workouts?

    How many carbohydrates are we talking about pre and post workouts?

    How long of a workout and what loading parameters are being used for your desriptions?

    Where did I say to completely get rid of carbs?

    Why do people lose body fat when they take out a large portion of their carbohydrates?

    Because they reduce their overall caloritic intake. Or maybe you're referring to the rapid weightloss that occurs right after cutting carbs. That's water weight they are shedding.

    I think you should answer these questions before going any further.
    Youre arguing an extreme when Im arguing a medium.

    I also think you should look at the same question here: What happens when your muscles and liver can no longer store any more carbs? This answer is my point. They are stored as body fat. So can you see why a LIMIT is a good idea? Or are you suggesting we can eat thousands of grams of carbs a day?
    I answered the only question that wasn't a repeat or simply ridiculous.
    Last edited by deeder; 08-20-2007 at 04:44 PM.
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  22. #21
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    What for? So you can feel like crap all day with no energy?



    Ok, excess carbs will be stored as fat. Yes I agree... What will excess fats and proteins be stored as?

    Just so we get this straight... In my question above, I'm talking about fats that you ingest, not fat stored in your body.



    No need to try to belittle me. I think my results since joining this forum speak for themselves. I understand bulking and cutting and I understand basic nutritional concepts. Ie: If you eat above maintenance, you will store fat. Never burn fat. Regardless of what your macro-nutrient breakdown is throughout the day.


    "What will excess fats and proteins be stored as?"

    Ah here we go. This is the reason for the missunderstanding between both you and Trevor.

    I agree excess calories can be stored as fat. But think Macros. Out of 3,000 calories, if you consumed MOST of them as carbohydrates, your body would not be able to store all of them, and as a result, youd store body fat. But lets say you had a macro range of 40% carbs, 30% protein, and 30% fat. Now your body has enough carbs to store in the muscles and liver but not so much that it has to store a majority as fat. See the medium? So if someone bulking is experiencing a larger fat gain than theyd like, they can lower calories from carbohydrates and see significant results.
    Last edited by RichMcGuire; 08-20-2007 at 04:48 PM.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  23. #22
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    How many carbohydrates can a person store on average?

    What carbohydrates are you referring to for pre and post workouts?

    How many carbohydrates are we talking about pre and post workouts?

    How long of a workout and what loading parameters are being used for your desriptions?

    Where did I say to completely get rid of carbs?

    Why do people lose body fat when they take out a large portion of their carbohydrates?

    I think you should answer these questions before going any further.
    Youre arguing an extreme when Im arguing a medium.

    I also think you should look at the same question here: What happens when your muscles and liver can no longer store any more carbs? This answer is my point. They are stored as body fat. So can you see why a LIMIT is a good idea? Or are you suggesting we can eat thousands of grams of carbs a day?
    On average roughly 1,500-2,000 calories worth. The expiration date on that is pretty quick. And An hour of intense resistance training exercise can drastically deplete it.

    Why do people loose weight when they cut out carbs? Because they are restricting their calorie intake. Aswell Water weight is quick to be lossed.

    Proteins conversion to carbohydrates can be stored as glycogen as well. Which is quick to happen when carbohydrate intake is drastically lowered. As I already explained to some degree.

    Anyway, I'll be back later. I have to be on my way now.
    People who don't know how to keep themselves healthy ought to have the decency to get themselves buried, and not waste time about it.
    Henrik Ibsen

  24. #23
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    "What will excess fats and proteins be stored as?"

    Ah here we go. This is the reason for the missunderstanding between both you and Trevor.

    I agree excess calories can be stored as fat. But think Macros. Out of 3,000 calories, if you consumed MOST of them as carbohydrates, your body would not be able to store all of them, and as a result, youd store body fat. But lets say you had a macro range of 40% carbs, 30% protein, and 30% fat. Now your body has enough carbs to store in the muscles and liver but not so much that it has to store a majority as fat. See the medium? So if someone bulking is experiencing a larger fat gain than theyd like, they can lower calories from carbohydrates and see significant results.
    If I eat 3000 calories a day mostly from carbs and I'm 500 calories over maintenance. In a week I will have probably put on about a pound of fat (lets assume I don't workout).

    If I eat 3000 calories a day with the distribution you suggested and I'm 500 calories over maintenance... In a week I will have probably put on about a pound of fat (lets assume I don't workout).

    Regardless of what you eat, if you are eating above maintenance calories you are going to gain fat. I don't believe that macronutrient breakdown has any effect whatsoever on how fast you gain weight.

    You don't seem to realize that fats and proteins are calories too. If you have 50g too many carbs or 50g too much protein, it's still gonna be stored as fat!
    Full Powerlifting
    Squat - 595lbs -- 270kg -- Dec. 31, '09 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Bench - 374lbs -- 170kg -- Dec 20, '08 (@100kg class)
    Dead - 589lbs -- 267.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @100kg class)
    Total: 1537lbs -- 697.5kg -- Dec 20, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)
    Bench Only -- 358lbs -- 162.5kg -- Nov. 25, '07 (Provincial Record @ 90kg class)
    Bench Only -- 376lbs -- 171kg -- Jan. 26, '08 (Provincial Record @ 100kg class)

  25. #24
    GreenG mickyjune26's Avatar
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    Is it possible that we are arguing, but not even the same points, of which, both are right?

    Yes, we need excess calories to build muscle.
    Yes, there are times of day when carbs may be eaten, to minimize fat gain.

    Now the details I'll leave to the WBB articles:
    http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=177
    then here
    http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=179
    then here
    http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=185
    and here
    http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=191
    then here
    http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=270

    (there are probably more that explain it in better detail)
    Want to be big? READ WBB ARTICLES!
    Deads 06 245...07 375...08 565---- Squat 2006 175.....2007 315----2008 505----Bench '06 155.....'07 260....'08 385---- weight - 260
    Goals:
    (11-08)Hit 1450 geared (class III - 600/500/350) current - 1455 geared
    Journal - Pics - ...9

  26. #25
    Team Intense pbal17's Avatar
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    wow...big arguement...but i just wanted to say that 5'11 170 is still gonna be really small. try and make a lifestyle out of this before you set a weight goal

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