The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    My Westside template... please help.

    Throughout my training, all my routines have always been geared towards bodybuilding. I figured since my strength absolutely sucks (big 3 of 740), as I increase my strength, it will be easier to stack on some quality muscle, which really is what I'm looking to do in the long run. So HERE is where I got my template from.


    So here it is:

    Monday- Upper body
    ME lift: Flat barbell press - Work up to a max set of 3-5 reps
    Supplemental lift: Incline dumbbell press - 3-4 sets of 6-10 reps
    Horizontal row: Yates row - 4 sets of 10-15 reps
    Rear delt/Upper back: BOL - 2-3 sets of 12-15 reps
    Abdominals: Weighted reverse crunches off chin bar - 3-4 sets of 8-15 reps

    Wednesday- Lower body
    ME lift: Box squat - work up to a max set of 5 reps
    Unilateral movement: Bulgarian split squat - 3-4 sets of 8-15 reps
    Hamstring/Posterior chain movement: Glute-ham raises - 3-4 sets of 6-10 reps
    Grip training: Barbell static holds - 3 sets of timed reps

    Friday- DE Upper body
    RE lift: Dips - 3 sets of max reps (60 sec rest between sets)
    Supplemental lift: JM press - 3-4 sets of 5-10 reps
    Vertical pulling: Chins - 4 sets of 8-12 reps
    Medial delt or trap: Dumbbell shoulder press - 3 sets of 10-15 reps
    Elbow flexion: Hammer curls - 3 sets of 8-10 reps
    Abdominal circuit training


    My goal is probably the same as 80% of everyone else on this site; to increase my strength and size. But I think I'll concentrate more on strength for the next little bit (6 months) only because, like I stated before, I feel it will be easier to add muscle when I'm stronger. Make sense?

    Questions:

    1) How does the program look overall?

    2) I'm wondering why I can't use a back squat for my lower body ME day. It never gave me that option. Is there a reason for this? Is this program suppose to be geared towards lifts that will support your big 3?

    3) Can I afford to add in extra work on off days being that I'm only training 3 days a week? If so, what can I add? I typically take a while to recover especially my hams, lower back, chest, tris and lats. They can take anywhere from 3-5 days. I noticed there's no direct calf work being done. I may add this to Saturday or something.


    Thanks a lot in advance.
    Last edited by Keith; 09-04-2007 at 08:26 PM.
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

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  3. #2
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    I'm liking my Back to the Basics split. It's nothing fancy. No cool name. It's only goal is to build a good base, something I've been neglecting. A lot of people really liked the whole conjugated periodization stuff. I certainly did and will go back to it at a later point, but I think most people would be better off building a solid base before doing all this unilateral work, weak point training, lagging bodypart stuff.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  4. #3
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    I'm liking my Back to the Basics split. It's nothing fancy. No cool name. It's only goal is to build a good base, something I've been neglecting. A lot of people really liked the whole conjugated periodization stuff. I certainly did and will go back to it at a later point, but I think most people would be better off building a solid base before doing all this unilateral work, weak point training, lagging bodypart stuff.
    I've never looked into it. But this program isn't really concentrating on weak points. I just would like to stick to a solid strength training program for a good 6 months that suits my needs then maybe go back to a routine designed for bodybuilding. Make sense?
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

  5. #4
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    I understand what you're saying.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  6. #5
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    I understand what you're saying.
    Have you ever done a solid Westside routine before? If so, how did it go for you and what did it look like?
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

  7. #6
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    I followed a conjugate periodization split for a solid year. Made some pretty good gains. When I first started, I did the whole traditional WSB stuff. Rotated ME lifts a lot, with GMs replacing squatting and pulling most of the time. Found that my CNS wasn't adapted enough to go that long without squatting. It eventually turned into something very similar to this:

    Mon- DE Upper, BP 8x3, Yates Rows, Chins, CGBP

    Tues- DE Lower, Sq 4x2, DL 4x1, Abs

    Fri- ME Upper, ME BP, Rows, CGBP

    Sat- ME Lower, ME SQ one week, ME DL the next, squatting or pulling movement on the "off" week, ab work.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  8. #7
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    I followed a conjugate periodization split for a solid year. Made some pretty good gains. When I first started, I did the whole traditional WSB stuff. Rotated ME lifts a lot, with GMs replacing squatting and pulling most of the time. Found that my CNS wasn't adapted enough to go that long without squatting. It eventually turned into something very similar to this:

    Mon- DE Upper, BP 8x3, Yates Rows, Chins, CGBP

    Tues- DE Lower, Sq 4x2, DL 4x1, Abs

    Fri- ME Upper, ME BP, Rows, CGBP

    Sat- ME Lower, ME SQ one week, ME DL the next, squatting or pulling movement on the "off" week, ab work.
    Looks good... more of a powerlifting version compared to mine. How much did your big 3 increase in the year while on this program?
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

  9. #8
    T.J.W. nhlfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    Found that my CNS wasn't adapted enough to go that long without squatting.
    I think that's the biggest problem noobs have with a traditional westside routine
    -Matt
    gym lifts: squat: 341lbs, deadlift: 374lbs, bench: 275lbs
    My journal: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=85034
    "Fk you and the Prowler you rode in on"

  10. #9
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    Total increased about 220lbs or so over a year.
    Jesus. I may have to reconsider. You just kept it simple eh? Probably the best way to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhlfan View Post
    I think that's the biggest problem noobs have with a traditional westside routine
    Absolutely.
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

  11. #10
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    I followed a conjugate periodization split for a solid year. Made some pretty good gains. When I first started, I did the whole traditional WSB stuff. Rotated ME lifts a lot, with GMs replacing squatting and pulling most of the time. Found that my CNS wasn't adapted enough to go that long without squatting. It eventually turned into something very similar to this:

    Mon- DE Upper, BP 8x3, Yates Rows, Chins, CGBP

    Tues- DE Lower, Sq 4x2, DL 4x1, Abs

    Fri- ME Upper, ME BP, Rows, CGBP

    Sat- ME Lower, ME SQ one week, ME DL the next, squatting or pulling movement on the "off" week, ab work.
    This looks VERY solid.
    Did you gain much mass during the time?

  12. #11
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    This looks VERY solid.
    Did you gain much mass during the time?
    That was what I was doing, and it was more towards the end of following that split. I started out doing a lot of variation, that I didn't feel like helped at all. I also worried about weak points which I shouldn't have bothered with. Everything was weak. I've cut my split down even simpler than that, though it's going to be altered just slightly.

    Mon- BP 5x5, DB Row 5x5, OH Press 3x8, Chin 3x8

    Tues- DL 3x3, Squat 3x8, MAYBE Front Sq 3x8 (depends on how I feel), Little Ab Work

    Fri- OH Press 5x5, Chin 5x5, BP 3x8, DB Row 3x8

    Sat- Squat 5x5, DL 3x5, RDLs, 3x8, Little Ab Work

    The changes I'm making are to lighten the load on Tuesday and focus on a heavy squat or heavy DL on Sat. I'm finding that with everything else I've got going on, I'm beating myself up pretty quickly trying to have a heavy DL and heavy SQ in the same week.





    As for gaining mass. I put on some weight but I haven't ever been really focused on putting on size. If you eat though, that split is sure to put some meat on your bones.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  13. #12
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    I just frustrated the hell out of myself yesterday and today.

    So far I'm not liking what I've been hearing from others off and on this forum about this routine which I found surprising because it came from a very credible person (Joe DeFranco). I'll be switching it up but I'm trying to figure out, just how much..

    Let me explain again, hopefully I can get some constructive criticism on this. My long term goal is all about aesthetics and putting on size. I've never done a powerlifting routine before and I'm wondering if it's a wise choice, by bringing all my lifts up and sticking with it for a good 6 months then going back over to a bodybuilding routine for 3 months or so before I cut again. Would that be a more effecient way of putting on some quality size compared to sticking with bodybuilding routines for 9 months (switching every 3 months)?
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

  14. #13
    Wannabebig Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    I followed a conjugate periodization split for a solid year. Made some pretty good gains. When I first started, I did the whole traditional WSB stuff. Rotated ME lifts a lot, with GMs replacing squatting and pulling most of the time. Found that my CNS wasn't adapted enough to go that long without squatting. It eventually turned into something very similar to this:

    Mon- DE Upper, BP 8x3, Yates Rows, Chins, CGBP

    Tues- DE Lower, Sq 4x2, DL 4x1, Abs

    Fri- ME Upper, ME BP, Rows, CGBP

    Sat- ME Lower, ME SQ one week, ME DL the next, squatting or pulling movement on the "off" week, ab work.
    Is this 8 sets of 3 or 3 sets of 8? And 4sets of 2 or 2 sets of 4?

    Thanks!

  15. #14
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Total increased about 220lbs or so over a year.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  16. #15
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Are the chins, rows and such done in the same manner as the day? So rows on DE day... would they be 8x3?

  17. #16
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    As long as you eat more than you burn, you're going to put on size. To me, I don't like the idea of focusing on training bodyparts. I'd much rather focus on heavy compounds.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  18. #17
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    As long as you eat more than you burn, you're going to put on size. To me, I don't like the idea of focusing on training bodyparts. I'd much rather focus on heavy compounds.
    Lol, I know if I'm consuming a caloric surplus I will put on weight. I'm wondering if it will be MORE effective in terms of size to train with a powerlifting routine for a good 6 months in comparison to a bodybuilding routine all year round. And all my bodybuilding routines have focused on heavy compounds and isolation work at the end.
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

  19. #18
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Yea I realize you know it, just felt like it was important enough to reiterate. As far as being better or worse, I think you'll find that both are pretty good, as long as you're focusing on heavy compounds first and foremost. The biggest difference between BB and PL splits are what you're training for. BB is all about hypertrophy while the PLing splits are centered around priming the CNS as well as building strength. There have been some studies that I've seen referenced on other forums that concluded that lower rep ranges produced more muscle hypertrophy than the traditional BB rep range. With that said, who knows for sure?

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  20. #19
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    Yea I realize you know it, just felt like it was important enough to reiterate. As far as being better or worse, I think you'll find that both are pretty good, as long as you're focusing on heavy compounds first and foremost. The biggest difference between BB and PL splits are what you're training for. BB is all about hypertrophy while the PLing splits are centered around priming the CNS as well as building strength. There have been some studies that I've seen referenced on other forums that concluded that lower rep ranges produced more muscle hypertrophy than the traditional BB rep range. With that said, who knows for sure?
    Pffft, as have I. A ton. Who knows what or who to listen to. Just thought I'd ask peoples opinions on this to see that they consider is more effective for hypertrophy.
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

  21. #20
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    I don't think there's any reason that you can't use both heavy work and then more work centered around traditional BB rep ranges. I have two upper and two lower days. You could do the same thing. Use one to lift heavy and then one to work in some higher rep stuff.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  22. #21
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Lol, as basic as it sounds, I think I may just use something like that. As of now, I'm frustrated as hell because I'm already two training days into the routine posted and I already have to switch it up. May just be with me, but it drives me insane doing that. I like to have everything planned so when I start, I can just floor it from there. I'm running into more and more problems/questions with that template. Time to look deeper into it..
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

  23. #22
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    bump
    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

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