The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #51
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Con View Post
    Chub - I wouldnt expect you to take advice from him. He is the one asking for advice, or atleast the best way to go about things. Different goals for different people.

    Rich - While working legs may use more calories, it still has nothing to do with limiting weight gain. It all comes down to calories, like it always has. Your body isnt going to say "Where are the leg workouts, I cant gain weight without them!".

    Phat - tofer is right.

    Song - If you provide a stimulus, and adequete calories, that part will grow. I dont believe the weakest link thing at all. And trust me, I see plenty of guys with huge upper bodies and no legs. We ALL have.

    You over simplified my post big time. It all has to do with calorie traffic from your CNS and hormonal responses. Working with heavy compounds such as squats and deadlifts simply shifts your body into a better calorie partioning state. This is why people may say your body grows as a whole.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  2. #52
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    Not understanding what you mean by this
    It all has to do with calorie traffic from your CNS
    The hormone response as I recall is miniscule and will more than likely not result in any huge, let alone noticeable difference.

    Better Calorie partitioning? Why does working lower body make the same calories better partitioned?

    Again, tell those guys with HUGE upperbodies that their upperbodies cannot grow to their full potential without leg workouts.
    Complication breeds desperation.

  3. #53
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    three pages and the guy hasnt posted pics of his legs, I would bet they are actually small, not big like he says.

  4. #54
    Banned Tofer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatmonky View Post
    Oh, how have you learned so little in your time here?
    I've been here long enough to know that a lot of the members here don't think for themselves and take what is written by other long-time members as gospel. There are too many people who don't question what others have to say, and ultimately end up spewing the same garbage to new members. This garbage keeps getting repeated in a cycle and eventually people just accept it without question. The comment that "you can't get a big upper body without working out your legs" is just one example. If I want big biceps what the hell is squatting going to do for me? Oh right, your biceps are stabilizing and offering a slight push on the ascending part of the lift. You're right, what a great arm workout squats are. Or what about, "the hormonal response of squatting produces growth hormone that stimulates the growth in the rest of your body" argument? I think it has been pretty well-documented that even though it may be the case that squats stimulate growth hormone, that doesn't mean it's going to lead to growth in other parts of your body. That hasn't once being scientifically proven.

    And here's where someone will spew off: "Well have you ever seen a guy with a huge squat that doesn't have huge arms?" Ignoring the fact that, yes, I have seen such a thing, chances are this so-called huge guy with a huge squat isn't just doing squats and nothing else all day. He's probably doing heavy rows, heavy bench, heavy pressing in general... His arms aren't just big because he's got a big squat.

    I think I need to reiterate my point that I DO work out my legs. My lower body is hugely important for my purposes. I enjoy front squats, deadlifts, power cleans, and my workouts would be absolutely dull without them. I'm just arguing against some of the nonsense people come up with here for others absolutely having to work out their legs. I just don't get this obsession people seem to have with forcing others to work out their lower body, and chastising them if they don't. Not everyone wants to be a powerlifter, not everyone cares about having a balanced physique; some people just want a fuller chest and a six-pack. Who the hell are you to tell them what they want? Not everyone has the same goals or ideal physique! It amazes me how often people forget this. A lot of us are very serious about building a balanced physique, either for aesthetic purposes, or because of a sport, but just because someone is less serious about lifting, and only cares about getting in a chest/arms workout here and there, doesn't give us the right to mock them. Why should it? What makes us so damn special? I play basketball for fun. I have no desire to improve my weak perimeter defense because that wouldn't be any fun for me. Why the hell should be any different for some guy weightlifting for fun, who doesn't enjoy working out his legs?


    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Having a huge chest and arms doesn't mean that they've reached their full potential. And as a side note I have NEVER seen anyone with a REALLY big chest and arms who didn't have big legs as well. Your body grows as a whole. Your upper body is NOT disconnected from your lower body. Yes you can develop one part more than another. But a chain is limited by its weakest link JUST the same as a human body is limited by its weakest bodypart. Ever see anybody with a 20 inch muscular arm and chicken legs?
    I think others beat me to it, but you have to be kidding me! I see guys like this all the time. I think pretty much everyone here has seen "that guy" at the gym one time or another. Hell, go watch an amateur bodybuilding show and see for yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by HahnB View Post
    Training your legs is obviously important to building a great body but I think it's impact on upper body achievement has been grossly overstated.

    "Your body grows as a whole"-this seems to be a phrase that is used a lot and doesn't really mean anything, it just sounds good. If your body grew as a whole, and has a whole only, then there'd be no such thing as the light bulb look because people wouldn't be able to have a big upper body and small lower body.
    I'm only re-quoting this because it ties in to what I was saying above, and I completely agree.

  5. #55
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Con View Post
    Not understanding what you mean by this

    The hormone response as I recall is miniscule and will more than likely not result in any huge, let alone noticeable difference.

    Better Calorie partitioning? Why does working lower body make the same calories better partitioned?

    Again, tell those guys with HUGE upperbodies that their upperbodies cannot grow to their full potential without leg workouts.
    Thats not quite a fact..thats a completely different debate on its own. I personally feel the opposite.

    Its not so much working the "lower body" to better partion calories for building muscle. Its the fact that squats work some 250 muscles in the body at once. Imagine what this does to your CNS system. It can trigger a response to direct calories to build muscle all around because of the high stress and intensity of your body working as a unit.

    You are thinking "lower body workouts" and Im talking squats/deadlifts. But doing squats and deadlifts IS working the lower body The way I read your posts, it makes me think of leg extensions..leg curls etc.. And I do not feel those will limit overall muscle production.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMcGuire View Post
    Thats not quite a fact..thats a completely different debate on its own. I personally feel the opposite.

    Its not so much working the "lower body" to better partion calories for building muscle. Its the fact that squats work some 250 muscles in the body at once. Imagine what this does to your CNS system. It can trigger a response to direct calories to build muscle all around because of the high stress and intensity of your body working as a unit.

    You are thinking "lower body workouts" and Im talking squats/deadlifts. But doing squats and deadlifts IS working the lower body The way I read your posts, it makes me think of leg extensions..leg curls etc.. And I do not feel those will limit overall muscle production.
    Sorry but I dont see it. Squats and deads work a lot of muscles but they will only trigger a growth repsonse in the areas it works, and thats provided there are adequete calories. And I think you are drifitng more towards deadlifts for this which is kind of misleading. Deadlifts work a large amount of muscles, but this is in both the upper and lower body, which is why you will grow from them. Squats on the otherr hand, not so much. Woiuld you honestly tell someone who wants to increase the upperbody mass to do squats? Think about it, working legs to help the arms, chest and shoulders grow.

    I was talking about squats and deadlifts too. Leg extensions/curls never really crossed my mind.

    But anyway, I doubt we will see eye to eye on this. Not that we really have to since, we both have more or less the same goals, and the OP hasnt even responded since the first page I believe.
    Complication breeds desperation.

  7. #57
    Senior Member RichMcGuire's Avatar
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    ^^

    In the end, its a pretty interesting debate. Theres much people dont know about lifting. And its always fun to share ideas about what works the best And I think youre right, I havent seen the OP reply either, lol.
    First Bulk pics VS Starting pics, take a look!! http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...=1#post1616109

    Progress pics of a cut using bodyweight only movements http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/sho...45#post2405745

    Generally, if you read a piece of advice on the internet, assume it's wrong until proven otherwise. This applies especially to "conventional wisdom". -Belial

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natetaco View Post
    Im with Con on this one. I saw a guy at the gym the other day benching like 430 and curling 155. He had an enmormous chest and huge arms, but no leg thickness, no ass, no calves, nothing.

    Ever seen a guy with 20 inch arms and chicken legs? yeah plenty at my gym.

    .
    Well I said 20 inch muscular arm and if that is the case I seriously doubt that. That is bigger than ARNOLD's arms which were measured to be 19.5 inches and 19 inches (right and left respectively). Maybe if most of that is flab...but you are saying that you have plenty of guys at your gym with bigger arms then one of the most genetically gifted lifters who was on large amounts of gear? You must work at some pretty crazy gym.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by HahnB View Post
    Training your legs is obviously important to building a great body but I think it's impact on upper body achievement has been grossly overstated.

    "Your body grows as a whole"-this seems to be a phrase that is used a lot and doesn't really mean anything, it just sounds good. If your body grew as a whole, and has a whole only, then there'd be no such thing as the light bulb look because people wouldn't be able to have a big upper body and small lower body.

    That's not what it means at all. It does mean that you are not going to have Ronnie Coleman's upper body on Larry Scott's lower. If you want to get your upper body to be as big as possible...you are going to have to work legs as well. That however doesn't mean that you can not build a very well developed upper body on a set of chicken legs.

    But if you look at the guys with the biggest upper bodies (powerlifters, strongmen, bodybuilders and what not) they ALWAYS have a set of legs to match.

    The big leg exercises such as deadlifts and squats do stimulate a bigger hormonal response. Now one workout doesn't make much difference but over a long period of time, all that hormonal release doesn't make a difference?

  10. #60
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    All I read was the title. Keep the leg wieghts. If you arent having fun go squat and deadlift and then squat and deadlift. You'll have fun eventually.
    Did I mention you should squat and deadlift???

    Squats at first s uck. Once you do them for a while you loVe them..

    I started a thread earlier about a trainer I'M Hiring who believes in only parellel squating. Don't do this. I'm going to talk to him and do below parellel squating.

    That being said:

    Squat and Deadlift and bench
    Squat and Deadlift and bench
    Squat and deadlift and bench

    I'm gonna get flamed for this,but sometime I do eight sets of squats each

    5 sets. I squat even if im tired. This might not be the best way to go,but I'm
    having fun doing it. In fact I think I wanna go squat now(jk just did yesterday parellel)

  11. #61
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    No one says you cant get a 'big' upper body without training legs.

    What they say is that you will not get as big as if you DID train your legs, and that you put yourself at risk of injury due to imbalances if you do not train your entire body.

    My guess is the OP is looking for an excuse to not squat, because squatting is hard. Most serious trainees train their entire body, and most who don't train their legs are not really serious. I train occasionally with a national level bodybuilder who is one of the biggest people I have ever seen. Somehow, he finds pants.

    There are exceptions to the rule.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  12. #62
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    i really dont understand everyone with the whole "i need to buy 40 size pants because my legs are sooo huge!"

    BS, my legs are 27 inches and i fit into my 36 jeans (not the waist very well) WITH NO PROBLEMS!

    dont remove squats, keep doing them.
    2000 or bust

  13. #63
    Senior Member Coqui's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumprrp View Post
    i really dont understand everyone with the whole "i need to buy 40 size pants because my legs are sooo huge!"

    BS, my legs are 27 inches and i fit into my 36 jeans (not the waist very well) WITH NO PROBLEMS!

    dont remove squats, keep doing them.
    They want skinny jeans that's why. No loose fit.

  14. #64
    Magically Delicious redFury's Avatar
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    definitely keep squatting.
    - rEDfURY
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    "To give anything less that your best is to sacrifice the gift" - Pre

  15. #65
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    If you cut your legs off you solve the whole not squatting thing, and the pants thing all in one shot.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofer View Post
    ? I think it has been pretty well-documented that even though it may be the case that squats stimulate growth hormone, that doesn't mean it's going to lead to growth in other parts of your body. That hasn't once being scientifically proven.

    .

    Growth hormone release is NOT localized to the part of the body that is being trained so I don't understand this "other parts" stuff. That being said growth hormone is not the be all and end all so you will definitely have to eat and do upper body exercises as well for maximum gains.

  17. #67
    Senior Member Natetaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    Growth hormone release is NOT localized to the part of the body that is being trained so I don't understand this "other parts" stuff. That being said growth hormone is not the be all and end all so you will definitely have to eat and do upper body exercises as well for maximum gains.
    Did you read what he said? He didnt say the growth hormone was localized. I guess ill clear it up for you, he basically said the GH release from squats isnt going to make another muscle of your body grow, that isnt worked in a squat, like your chest for example.

    geeze just end this madness
    Last edited by Natetaco; 09-13-2007 at 06:17 PM.
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  18. #68
    Hulk Smash! LouPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumprrp View Post
    i really dont understand everyone with the whole "i need to buy 40 size pants because my legs are sooo huge!"

    BS, my legs are 27 inches and i fit into my 36 jeans (not the waist very well) WITH NO PROBLEMS!

    dont remove squats, keep doing them.
    I agree, it doesn't make sense at 5'11", 207lbs. If he is telling the truth then his upper body must be non-existent. I've had 26" thighs and had no problem fitting into loose-fitting 34s.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natetaco View Post
    Did you read what he said? He didnt say the growth hormone was localized. I guess ill clear it up for you, he basically said the GH release from squats isnt going to make another muscle of your body grow, that isnt worked in a squat, like your chest for example.

    geeze just end this madness

    And you are saying the same thing. Once again. If growth hormone does increase size, it will increase size all over. This is the case regardless of what exercise is used. The GH release from squats is NOT going to JUST affect those muscles directly trained by the squat. That is what I meant by "localized". GH is released into the bloodstream, which circulates through the ENTIRE body.
    (If you want links I will be happy to provide them via PM.)

    Now whether or not the GH release actually has a lot of effect is another debate all together.

    I agree. I think this has run its course.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 09-13-2007 at 11:20 PM.

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