The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 45
  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    7

    Doctor's Advice on Nutrition

    Went to see my docotr today for a annual check-up. He noticed that in the last year i've stacked on the pounds (bulking ). When he asked me what my macros were I told him and he responded : "Theres too much fat and protein in your diet. You should consume 70% carbs, 20% protein and 10% fat." What you guys think about that?

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    My Head
    Posts
    6,120
    I've never heard anyone say 70% carbs ever...anywhere...in any book...or article I've ever read.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  4. #3

  5. #4
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,020
    Out of his entire university education, he spent about 2 weeks on nutrition.

    And it shows.
    Facebook - BW166 SQ585 BP405 DL660 CL310

  6. #5
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9,916
    http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=diet&dbid=5

    "Dr. Ornish's dietary recommendations are as follows:
    • Consume 10% of calories as fat, with a ratio of polyunsaturated fat to saturated fat that is greater than 1
    • Consume 70-75% of calories as complex carbohydrates and 15-20% of calories as protein "

  7. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    University at Albany
    Posts
    2,514
    Does your Dr lift weights? Probably not. He is a Dr, but has no idea what he's talking about. George Hackenschmidt (creator of the Hack Squat Machine) said the same thing 100 years ago. If you don't do it, shut the F#$K up because you have no idea.

  8. #7
    Banned markdk86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    1,116
    This is why I go to a doctor that used to do steroids the correct way and competed in body building. Dr. Smith for the win!

  9. #8
    DeaTH BeFoRe WeaKNeSs sCaRz*Of*PaiN's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    My Head
    Posts
    6,120
    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=diet&dbid=5

    "Dr. Ornish's dietary recommendations are as follows:
    • Consume 10% of calories as fat, with a ratio of polyunsaturated fat to saturated fat that is greater than 1
    • Consume 70-75% of calories as complex carbohydrates and 15-20% of calories as protein "
    Same page:

    Nutrient Excesses/Deficiencies

    The Ornish Diet may be deficient in calcium, iron, vitamin B12, and essential fatty acids. Dr. Ornish recommends supplementation with these nutrients.
    Or you could achieve that by upping your macros in less ridiculous proportions.
    Last edited by sCaRz*Of*PaiN; 09-06-2007 at 09:15 PM.
    "The only easy day was yesterday."

  10. #9
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    0
    There are plenty of studies done on Ornish's diet that shows drastic cholesterol and other heart health improvements. It's A way to eat, certainly not THE way. There are also studies done on Atkins style dieting that show the same. The Calories are the biggest factor, the fact that they had unhealthy people eating less it improved their health risks.

    Most people get very hungry when trying to eat like this, but if you can stick with it and you have hypertension and hypercholesterolemia, go for it. It will improve your health. And contrary to popular belief you could gain muscle on it. I wouldnt do it though.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  11. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    4,548
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    Out of his entire university education, he spent about 2 weeks on nutrition.

    And it shows.
    that's brutal.
    Quote Originally Posted by markdk86 View Post
    This is why I go to a doctor that used to do steroids the correct way and competed in body building. Dr. Smith for the win!
    and that's awesome

  12. #11
    Combat Infantryman
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Ypsilanti
    Posts
    662
    Anthony's pretty spot on. I'm in a pre-med track program and only one, 3 credit hour class deals with nutrition. Don't go to a physician for nutrition advice. Go to a dietetician or nutritionist.
    U.S. Army Infantry
    Eastern Michigan University Eagle

  13. #12
    Superman sharkall2003's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Green Bay, Wisconsin, United States.
    Posts
    4,158
    Hmmmm, I went to my doctor and he had nothing but good things to say about what I eat. I told him I eat high protein, low carbs and moderate fats. No preservatives and usually organic foods. Blood tests came back and my cholesterol was slightly elevated. I guess you can't argue with good blood results, perfect blood pressure, restring heart rate below 60 and little healthy problems.
    5'11.75
    249lbs cutting to 220lbs
    Bench: 250
    Deadlift: 435
    Squat: 350
    OHP: 190

  14. #13
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    0
    One of you geniuses explain to me what was so misguided about his scientifically backed suggestion. Why is following your own diets or the suggestions of other bulkers here better than this uneducated and misinformed doc.

    I swear if I see one more bulking thread about micky ****in D's or the whopper, So many people bulk to absolute fatness on this site and claim it's in all in the name of muscle it's hillarious, and a bit sad.

    And of course i'm not saying following his advice on a bulk is going to result in any less fat gain or better results than a higher fat diet or anything else "normally" recomended on a bodybuilding site. But he didnt tell the guy that squats are going to ruin his knees or to never deadlift, I mean come on, think before you post.
    Last edited by smalls; 09-07-2007 at 05:37 PM.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  15. #14
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,020
    Here's the break down of his scientifically backed percentages in two situations:

    The first will be based on my body weight (180 pounds) where I meet 1g protein per pound and 0.5g fat per pound as minimums. That equates to 720 calories from protein and 810 calories from fat. We will say that's 30% of total calories, which means 5100 total calories, or 892 grams of carbs.

    The second scenario will be based on my current maintenance calories (approx 3500) using 70% carbs, 20% protein, and 10% fat. That would equate to 612g of carbs, 175g of protein, and 38g of fat.

    I'm not sure how many of you actually eat 600-900 grams of carbs on a regular basis, but I can sure as **** tell you that it's not easy or comfortable. I don't think any responsible nutritionist would EVER recommend carbs that high for someone weighing 180 pounds.

    Hello Syndrome-X.
    Last edited by Anthony; 09-07-2007 at 06:59 PM.
    Facebook - BW166 SQ585 BP405 DL660 CL310

  16. #15
    Combat Infantryman
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Ypsilanti
    Posts
    662
    I'm not a bodybuilder, smalls. I don't bulk period.
    U.S. Army Infantry
    Eastern Michigan University Eagle

  17. #16
    Cardio bunny Alex.V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Duke
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by smalls View Post
    Why is following your own diets or the suggestions of other bulkers here better than this uneducated and misinformed doc.
    Because my own diet doesn't suck.
    "Except Belial. He knows everything. This isn't a sarcastic attack, either. He really knows everything." -----Organichu
    "Alex is all knowing and perfect"-----Jane (loosely paraphrased)
    -515/745/700 bench/deadlift/squat
    Current mile time: 4:23
    Marathons: 3
    Century races: 3
    Ironmans: 1
    Ultramarathons: 1
    Current supps: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/prod...covery/results

  18. #17
    Senior Member bill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    va
    Posts
    212
    Not to say what the doc was telling is right or wrong. Of the pds how much is fat, it's easy to bulk and think your gaining a lot of muscle, when it's really fat.
    Remember, to get big, you have to get strong. The two are interconnected. Lift heavy, work hard, and size will come. Like night follows day. It works. Arnold
    Do work son. Big Black (Rob and Big)

  19. #18
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
    Here's the break down of his scientifically backed percentages in two situations:

    The first will be based on my body weight (180 pounds) where I meet 1g protein per pound and 0.5g fat per pound as minimums. That equates to 720 calories from protein and 810 calories from fat. We will say that's 30% of total calories, which means 5100 total calories, or 892 grams of carbs.

    The second scenario will be based on my current maintenance calories (approx 3500) using 70% carbs, 20% protein, and 10% fat. That would equate to 612g of carbs, 175g of protein, and 38g of fat.

    I'm not sure how many of you actually eat 600-900 grams of carbs on a regular basis, but I can sure as **** tell you that it's not easy or comfortable. I don't think any responsible nutritionist would EVER recommend carbs that high for someone weighing 180 pounds.

    Hello Syndrome-X.
    You honestly believe that people are going to become insulin resistent at or below maintenance calories, regardeless of activity level, lifestyle etc (which the ornish diet does advocate and address)? And I eat 600+ grams of carbs at the beginning of my diets and lose weight, copious amounts of weight. Eating 7 or 800 grams of carbs might be difficult for you but I am hungry on that amount and that includes a much higher amount of fat and protein than he recomends as well.

    I agree that the ratio's are extreme, I just think it's funny how so many people who live what would be considered an "extreme" lifestyle by the rest of society have such closed minds. The ornish diet is a health oriented diet usually given to grossly unhealthy, overweight individuals and it works for it's purposes, period. To think that a doctor giving that advice to aide his patient is misguided, uneducated and that steroid induced meathead doctors are the better way to go is just ignorant.

    When I first started learning about his dietary recomendations and the studies behind them I thoght it was rediculous. I thought the ratio's where unneccasarily unlevel and that I would never recomend such a diet. But to see a bunch of internet know it all's bash an entire profession over information they know very little about makes me realize how close minded I myself can be, thanks. Seriously.

    The funny thing is I probably dislike and have more reason to dislike docs than the rest of you. I just try to save my bashing to something worthwhile.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  20. #19
    Combat Infantryman
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Ypsilanti
    Posts
    662
    We only live an "extreme" lifestyle because 66% of the country is morbidly obese or obese. 1-5% of those people have some sort of medical disorder (thyroid) which makes it tougher (but not impossible with medication) to see results from diet and exercise. If the other 50~ or so per cent were in healthy shape, what the majority of people here do would be fairly normal. I follow my own diet because I can't afford $100 a month in health insurance to go see some doctor tell me I'm wrong for living the way I do. I lost 250lbs on my own without any "professional" health and am doing fine. When I first lost all my weight and was at my leanest, I went and saw my old family doctor who used to put his fingers around my wrist and call me fat to my face. He told me bodybuilding/powerlifting is unhealthy and he didn't recommend it. I haven't been back to a medical doctor since.
    U.S. Army Infantry
    Eastern Michigan University Eagle

  21. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    University at Albany
    Posts
    2,514
    Yeah, it's me. You know my "fat" ass saw the post about McD's. Don't bash God's food. It hurts me everytime someone says you get fat when you eat it. My BF only raised 1/10 of a point as I've gained 20lbs in 3 weeks. No drugs, either. And I didn't go from 180 to 200. I went from 291 to 310. My sleep will be restless tonight because of the unnecessary bashing of the Big Mac!

    On to the post - I would take the Dr's advice for what it's worth. If you have health problems, you need to be smart about it. If not, I personally don't worry. Stay on top of your blood work. You need to eat for your goals. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, that requires you to eat like crap. It also depends on how bad you want to reach your goals. Do whatever YOU are willing to do to get there. Just don't cry if you don't make it and haven't tried EVERYTHING you can to get there.

    Dr's aren't that smart. Why would someone want to be in school for 20 years? That just seems dumb to me. Think about it.

  22. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    University at Albany
    Posts
    2,514
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikkstah View Post
    We only live an "extreme" lifestyle because 66% of the country is morbidly obese or obese. 1-5% of those people have some sort of medical disorder (thyroid) which makes it tougher (but not impossible with medication) to see results from diet and exercise. If the other 50~ or so per cent were in healthy shape, what the majority of people here do would be fairly normal. I follow my own diet because I can't afford $100 a month in health insurance to go see some doctor tell me I'm wrong for living the way I do. I lost 250lbs on my own without any "professional" health and am doing fine. When I first lost all my weight and was at my leanest, I went and saw my old family doctor who used to put his fingers around my wrist and call me fat to my face. He told me bodybuilding/powerlifting is unhealthy and he didn't recommend it. I haven't been back to a medical doctor since.
    That's incredible! I'm seriously impressed. You will achieve anything you set your mind to. Just amazing. That takes the sting away from the negative McD's comments.

  23. #22
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    Yeah, it's me. You know my "fat" ass saw the post about McD's. Don't bash God's food. It hurts me everytime someone says you get fat when you eat it. My BF only raised 1/10 of a point as I've gained 20lbs in 3 weeks. No drugs, either. And I didn't go from 180 to 200. I went from 291 to 310. My sleep will be restless tonight because of the unnecessary bashing of the Big Mac!

    On to the post - I would take the Dr's advice for what it's worth. If you have health problems, you need to be smart about it. If not, I personally don't worry. Stay on top of your blood work. You need to eat for your goals. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, that requires you to eat like crap. It also depends on how bad you want to reach your goals. Do whatever YOU are willing to do to get there. Just don't cry if you don't make it and haven't tried EVERYTHING you can to get there.

    Good post, For the most part I totally agree. And I hope I didnt anger you about the mickey D's, lol. Nobody beats their apple pies, and double cheeseburgers for a buck. I just find it sad when there are a bunch of 16 year olds closing in on 20% BF and using fast food as bulking food when they dont even have the basics down.

    I have eaten worse for the last 3 weeks than I have since I was a kid, and i'm as lean as i've ever been. I'm not trying to tell people how to eat, I understand that what you eat isnt as important as how much. I'm just saying that people bashing advice aimed towards the general population (which is who doctors are addressing, unless your huge and shredded he doesnt think of you as any different than the fat old lady coming in after you) based in fact is neither misguided or dumb. People need to realized their are a million ways to skin a cat and open their minds a little.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  24. #23
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikkstah View Post
    We only live an "extreme" lifestyle because 66% of the country is morbidly obese or obese. 1-5% of those people have some sort of medical disorder (thyroid) which makes it tougher (but not impossible with medication) to see results from diet and exercise. If the other 50~ or so per cent were in healthy shape, what the majority of people here do would be fairly normal. I follow my own diet because I can't afford $100 a month in health insurance to go see some doctor tell me I'm wrong for living the way I do. I lost 250lbs on my own without any "professional" health and am doing fine. When I first lost all my weight and was at my leanest, I went and saw my old family doctor who used to put his fingers around my wrist and call me fat to my face. He told me bodybuilding/powerlifting is unhealthy and he didn't recommend it. I haven't been back to a medical doctor since.
    Your preaching to the choir bro, I dont understand why. There are good doctors and bad, just like any other professions. Congrats on the progress.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

    "Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be."
    --Abraham Lincoln

    "Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
    Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination
    alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'press on' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race."
    Calvin Coolidge (1872-1933)
    30th U.S. President

    "If you want to look abnormal you have to eat abnormal,lol."--ST

  25. #24
    Senior Member Anthony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    12,020
    Smalls, I absolutely believe that excessive carb intake is contributing to syndrome-x. The only essential macros are fat and protein and based on his ratios, both would be below minimum requirements for someone as active as I am. I don't need a doctor or a ****ing peer reviewed study to tell me that my performance drops when I lower my protein and fat. So here you have a doctor recommending a bunch of stuff you don't really need (carbs) and skimping on the stuff you do need (fat and protein).

    It's irresponsible. If you disagree, that's cool. But I think you're playing devil's advocate on this one because a few kids waddled into your territory of expertise.

    Read my signature, that's pretty much what I want to see people doing. It's not about "extremes" it's about balance, performance, and health. And the ocassional Big Mac.
    Last edited by Anthony; 09-08-2007 at 05:47 AM.
    Facebook - BW166 SQ585 BP405 DL660 CL310

  26. #25
    Combat Infantryman
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Ypsilanti
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by smalls View Post
    Your preaching to the choir bro, I dont understand why. There are good doctors and bad, just like any other professions. Congrats on the progress.
    I'm not preaching to the choir, you're accusing a population of self-educated, healthy people seeking to improve their lifestyle of not knowing what they're doing/not going to an M.D. for professional nutritional and dietetic help.
    U.S. Army Infantry
    Eastern Michigan University Eagle

Similar Threads

  1. Amount of protein
    By syntekz in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 02-03-2010, 03:51 PM
  2. The Workout Window - Pre, During, and Post-Workout Nutrition
    By galileo in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 65
    Last Post: 06-05-2009, 03:27 PM
  3. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-17-2005, 02:46 PM
  4. Respect for doctors rant
    By Reinier in forum General Chat
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 07-18-2003, 06:28 PM
  5. Nutrition Advice
    By harryhoudini66 in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-16-2003, 03:35 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •