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Thread: will arms lag in beginning with no direct work?

  1. #1
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    will arms lag in beginning with no direct work?

    I was thinking, would your arms lag in the beginning if you do not do direct arm work?

    Reason I say this is that the other movements in your compound exercises will be the weakest link in the beginning. For example, if your doing benchpress your shoulders would be the weakest link in that movement and until your shoulders get stronger you will not be working your tricept mucles and chest muscles enough to get any serious gains.

    Think any other exercises, like pullups, maybe your bicep will not be worked effectively until your lat muscles get to a certain point and your bicep starts to become the weakest link.

    It makes sense because there must be different stresses on the different mucles in the beginning of working out until everything gets evened out.


    I've noticed this because I stopped doing Barbell Curls for 3 months, while I was doing pulldowns my strength incresed hugely in that exercise. But when I went to do barbell curls again I could barely do the same weight I did 3 months ago.

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    Senior Member Coqui's Avatar
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    I stopped doing barbell curls a while back and just because I had some extra time yesterday, I did them again. I went up 20 pounds. What's your back routine look like?

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    theres no reason not to do curls.

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    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    A lot of it is going to depend on your individual proportions, what lifts you do, and what base you are starting from.
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    Only happy when bulking radioheadhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prizeoasis View Post
    theres no reason not to do curls.
    I agree. As long as you don't overtrain your arms, curl if you want to. Just don't let your compunds suffer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by prizeoasis View Post
    theres no reason not to do curls.
    That is a way too general statement. While I agree they are not necessary, saying something like that is incorrect. There is nothing wrong with doing curls, as long as they do not interfere with more important compound lifts.
    Last edited by ZenMonkey; 10-02-2007 at 10:16 AM.
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    I say as long as your doing mostly compund lifts, you dont need to do curls. i wouldnt spend much time on curls,but there isnt anything wrong with doing them.
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    Senior Member Vapour Trails's Avatar
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    Yes curls often interfere with progress in exercises like..............
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    I do 1 set of curls on my leg back day. doesn't seem to hinder progres...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapour Trails View Post
    Yes curls often interfere with progress in exercises like..............
    like..............what?
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    like......sarcasm
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    Magically Delicious redFury's Avatar
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    Curls can a fun thing to do every now and again but pullups are the only exercise that I consistently do for bis and I've gotten a ton stronger on actual curls as a result.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZenMonkey View Post
    That is a way too general statement. While I agree they are not necessary, saying something like that is incorrect. There is nothing wrong with doing curls, as long as they do not interfere with more important compound lifts.
    i repeat, there is no reason not to do curls.

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    But my original question is, why would I increase hugely in lat pulldows, say from like 130 pounds to 180 pounds.. but in that 3 month time period not be able to do more barbell curls?

    I'm thinking it has to do with weakest link and not working my bi's.

  15. #15
    Work in Progress Lumiel's Avatar
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    Your arms will not lag if you don't do direct work, IF you're doing major compound movements. Your biceps will get worked with chin ups and rows. Your triceps will get worked with chest presses and military presses, and your forearms will be worked in EVERY exercise where you have to hold a heavy weight. I only give direct work to my biceps and triceps once a week and my arms are blowing up HUGE!

    Actually, to add to my post, I remember my arms getting more benefit than the chest or back from compound movements. They were forced to adapt, strengthen coordinating and synergistic muscles and get in shape so that my chest and back could continue to be properly hit.

    I think the major theme you'll see on these boards is that we want to avoid the curl monkey routine where you spend an entire day in the gym doing nothing but bicep and tricep curls over and over and over - because it's just over-training. You'll get better results in quicker time just doing compound moves and maybe ONE day a week doing 2 focused exercises for bis and tris.
    Last edited by Lumiel; 10-02-2007 at 04:33 PM.
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    rebuilding the foundations Herandi's Avatar
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    ^^ well said
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie500 View Post
    But my original question is, why would I increase hugely in lat pulldows, say from like 130 pounds to 180 pounds.. but in that 3 month time period not be able to do more barbell curls?

    I'm thinking it has to do with weakest link and not working my bi's.
    It depends on how your doing your lat pulldowns to. If your using a thumbless grip your not going to get any assistance from your biceps. If you wrap your thumbs you will.

    Biceps should not be a concern they are a relatively small muscle group. If you want big arms work your tries. They only bicep work I do is hammer curls cuz i can do a lot of weight. Other than that I just blast them with high reps with whatever exercise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get Strong View Post
    It depends on how your doing your lat pulldowns to. If your using a thumbless grip your not going to get any assistance from your biceps. If you wrap your thumbs you will.
    WHAT? That makes no sense at all. How will your thumb - which is not connected to your bicep in any way, determine whether your bicep will be assisting in a lat pull down?

    If your hand is moving in any way closer to your shoulder, then your bicep is being engaged, period. That's what that muscle does. The only way to prevent the bicep from being engaged is to freeze the movement of the elbow and as we all know, you can't do a lat pull down with frozen elbow movement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiel View Post
    WHAT? That makes no sense at all. How will your thumb - which is not connected to your bicep in any way, determine whether your bicep will be assisting in a lat pull down?

    If your hand is moving in any way closer to your shoulder, then your bicep is being engaged, period. That's what that muscle does. The only way to prevent the bicep from being engaged is to freeze the movement of the elbow and as we all know, you can't do a lat pull down with frozen elbow movement.
    Try it. Try doing a lat pull thumbless then doing it with your thumb and see if you can pull more weight. I know I can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiel View Post
    WHAT? That makes no sense at all. How will your thumb - which is not connected to your bicep in any way, determine whether your bicep will be assisting in a lat pull down?

    If your hand is moving in any way closer to your shoulder, then your bicep is being engaged, period. That's what that muscle does. The only way to prevent the bicep from being engaged is to freeze the movement of the elbow and as we all know, you can't do a lat pull down with frozen elbow movement.
    Okay maybe I said it wrong, its not that your bicep will be totally cut off in the movement but it will limit its effectiveness.
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  21. #21
    Work in Progress Lumiel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get Strong View Post
    Okay maybe I said it wrong, its not that your bicep will be totally cut off in the movement but it will limit its effectiveness.
    It doesn't limit it's effectiveness. The width of your grip is what determines the extent to which your bicep is engaged in the exercise. Close grip will engage the bicep more than a wide grip, but even then it is still engaged. If you can pull more weight without your thumbs, then the weakness lies in your grip and your forearm, and has nothing to do with your bicep.
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    ^to bend your elbow you have to use your bicep
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    Work in Progress Lumiel's Avatar
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    ^ 'das my point. ;-)
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    worst. argument. evar

  25. #25
    Senior Member tomv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiel View Post
    It doesn't limit it's effectiveness. The width of your grip is what determines the extent to which your bicep is engaged in the exercise. Close grip will engage the bicep more than a wide grip, but even then it is still engaged. If you can pull more weight without your thumbs, then the weakness lies in your grip and your forearm, and has nothing to do with your bicep.
    Width of grip and hand positioning.
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