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Thread: Strength increase difference in 2 people. One eats a lot, one doesn't

  1. #1
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    Strength increase difference in 2 people. One eats a lot, one doesn't

    Hi Guys,

    I didn't do a search on this as I think it's more of a specific question about my progress rather than a general question.

    Basically, I eat well over maintenance calories at the moment and my training partner is eating probably just under maintenance cals.

    Over the last 30 days:
    I have increased my bench by 30 lbs (15lbs per DB)
    My training partner has increased his by 22lbs (11lbs per DB)

    We used to perform BB and not DB for chest, but we switched over last month for a bit.

    I think the increase I made was quite good as I'm "bulking". However, I was surprised that my training partner has also increased quite a lot as well and I wondered if this is to be expected?

    I think that he is progressing because I am ... by this I mean if I progress it's forcing him to try harder or he gets left behind. Does this sound feasible?

    I never expected him to increase as much as he did. However, I have noticed that over the last week his progression is slowing whereas mine is not. Perhaps the switch from BB to DB allowed facilitated some new gains as well?

    What do you think?
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  2. #2
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    I think there are way too many variables to consider...
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
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  3. #3
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    Sensei - I think I heard you mention the other week that it's best to eat just over mainenace cals...if that wasn't you then I will edit this post

    My main aim is to get stronger with some extra size and I think the numbers I've posted perhaps show that eating just over maintenance might be better than going way over maintenace (As the strength increase difference between me and my training partner are not massive yet he is cutting and I'm not)

    What strength difference do you think it will make if i eat just over maintenance vs way over?
    Last edited by leetuck; 09-28-2007 at 07:01 AM.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  4. #4
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    I just said it's best to eat more and better if you are trying to get big and strong. I don't know if it's possible to quantify how much of a difference that would make.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by leetuck View Post
    What strength difference do you think it will make if i eat just over maintenance vs way over?
    Well, like so many things, you can only make but so progress in a given time.

    Choose a medium IMO. Dont go crazy since you arent going to make signifigantly larger gains with just more cals, and too little cals can lead to agonizingly slow gains.
    Complication breeds desperation.

  6. #6
    Wannabebig Member
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    This difference could be due to him having a past at lifting and "muscle memory" or whatever the technical term is. It seems that once you have reached a particular strength level, when you drop back down, you have an easier time getting to that previous level than you did the first time around.

    Also CNS levels could differ and his strength increase has nothing to do with gaining muscle mass and more to do with that his Central Nervous system adapts faster than yours.
    Last edited by Teutates; 09-28-2007 at 09:54 AM.

  7. #7
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    hmm all valid points.

    I will just keep doing what I'm doing and see how the next month progresses. I guess that my training partners progress will start to slow down at a faster rate than mine. At xmas I will post again showing the strength differences over the last 4 months when 1 person is eating just under maintenace and one eats over. I could post some graphs on progression vs time etc aswell to make things more interesting. We both train in the same rep range so will be a good test.

    Thanks guys.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  8. #8
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    Like Sensei said,t here are still too many variables. It it not merely the amount of calories, but also the quality of those calories.

    Other things to take into consideration: Genetics-- Some people just gain faster than others. Training history--the longer you work out correctly, the slower the gains will come over time. Rest--this will definitely affect gains. Active recovery--what you are doing outside the gym has an affect, too.
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
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  9. #9
    Magically Delicious redFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leetuck View Post
    hmm all valid points.

    I will just keep doing what I'm doing and see how the next month progresses. I guess that my training partners progress will start to slow down at a faster rate than mine. At xmas I will post again showing the strength differences over the last 4 months when 1 person is eating just under maintenace and one eats over. I could post some graphs on progression vs time etc aswell to make things more interesting. We both train in the same rep range so will be a good test.

    Thanks guys.
    It may not slow down as quick as you think. I may be an exception to the rule, but my lifts are going up while not putting hardly any weight on. So it doesnt surprise me that your friend is improving.
    - rEDfURY
    Powerlifting since Sept 2006
    My PL Training Journal

    Philippians 4:13

    "To give anything less that your best is to sacrifice the gift" - Pre

  10. #10
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    The one big thing that my mate tends to do a lot of is sleep and rest! This may be a good thing for him Also, apart from lifting weights he is very inactive which prob helps him 2. I am always busy and generally get between 6 and 8 hours a day (8 hours being very rare).
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  11. #11
    eek... it's lil' Fixation! fixationdarknes's Avatar
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    Lee, don't think it's bad to be active when you're not lifting. It's actually good to get some blood pumping into your muscles when you're resting - it can speed recovery. BG mentioned this - "active recovery."
    Last edited by fixationdarknes; 09-28-2007 at 12:43 PM.
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    I try to visualize that my girlfriend is under the weight and I have to push the weight up to save her. Of course it doesn't work and I just laugh as I think about the weight slowly crushing her bones. Then I remember it's me under the weight and give 200% effort to push it back up.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by redFury View Post
    It may not slow down as quick as you think. I may be an exception to the rule, but my lifts are going up while not putting hardly any weight on. So it doesnt surprise me that your friend is improving.
    As a powerlifter, dont you use more complicated methods than a begginer would?
    Complication breeds desperation.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Chickenlegs's Avatar
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    I think 30 lbs in 30 days is an awful lot. That doesn't sound right to me. Were you giving max effort before?

  14. #14
    Magically Delicious redFury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Con View Post
    As a powerlifter, dont you use more complicated methods than a begginer would?
    Not really... (at least I dont think so). Here are the exercises I usually do for bench:

    Bench
    Incline Bench
    Decline bench
    Arnold presses
    Military press
    Weighted dips
    Skull crushers

    Sorry, just playing devil's advocate and claiming that the kid could be a freak. I'm sure in a few months when he slows down we'll know for sure.
    Last edited by redFury; 09-28-2007 at 04:21 PM.
    - rEDfURY
    Powerlifting since Sept 2006
    My PL Training Journal

    Philippians 4:13

    "To give anything less that your best is to sacrifice the gift" - Pre

  15. #15
    ... weightlifting forever leetuck's Avatar
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    I will tell him he's a freak for ya .... I always call him "my project". I started lifting weights and he used to say "it's a waste of time". Then one day he got sick of being fat and said "can i join you at the gym one day" so i took him under my wing

    I keep records of all our workouts so hopefully I can post something interesting around xmas for y'all.
    Last edited by leetuck; 09-28-2007 at 05:31 PM.
    Lee

    Height: 6ft 4
    Current weight: 226 lbs

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by redFury View Post
    Not really... (at least I dont think so). Here are the exercises I usually do for bench:

    Bench
    Incline Bench
    Decline bench
    Arnold presses
    Military press
    Weighted dips
    Skull crushers

    Sorry, just playing devil's advocate and claiming that the kid could be a freak. I'm sure in a few months when he slows down we'll know for sure.

    Not the exercises. More the methods. I.E. RE, ME. DE, speed work, etc.
    Complication breeds desperation.

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