The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    This may start an argument, but..........(it's about deadlifts)

    In addition to that "back exercises" thread, I think weighted pull-ups are a better back exercise then deadlifts. Don't get me wrong, deadlifts are the s***, and I love them, but I mostly feel them in my hamstrings, the back of my traps, my lower back, and my quads. Deadlifts are a great overall mass builder, but as for a primary upper back exercise though, weighted pull-ups definately are my #1 exercise. I do a few sets with a 25 lb or 45 lb weight attached, then finish by doing a few bodyweight sets to failure, and holy s*** do I feel it in my back the next day especially my lats and mid-upper back. I do it all for my back, because that's my #1 favorite body part to work, but weighted pull-ups take the cake.

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  3. #2
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    If you can pull an ass ton of weight, you'll have a large back. While some other lifts may hit portions of your back, they should fall behind DLs as far as priority. Show me a guy who pulls impressive weight, and I'll show you an impressive back 99.9% of the time.

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  4. #3
    The Man of Steel -Superman-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    If you can pull an ass ton of weight, you'll have a large back. While some other lifts may hit portions of your back, they should fall behind DLs as far as priority. Show me a guy who pulls impressive weight, and I'll show you an impressive back 99.9% of the time.
    No you mean, 99.999999999999999% of the time.
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  5. #4
    Banned bjohnso's Avatar
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    Rack pulls pwn deadlifts for back development.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Phenom's Avatar
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    For me, deadlifts hit the whole lower portion of my back the most. But I agree with the OP, if you are talking about just lats and upper back, pullups > deads
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  7. #6
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    I hear a lot about these rack pulls, I have no idea what they are. I'm gonna look those son of a b****es up.

    But deads + heavy, weighted pull-ups = huge back.

  8. #7
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjohnso View Post
    Rack pulls pwn deadlifts for back development.


    Absolutely.
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  9. #8
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    I just googled rack pulls. So a rack pull is just a normal deadlift, but with the bar starting higher up off the ground to allow for more weight? And that supposedly builds your back more then conventional deadlifts?

  10. #9
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's what it seems like to me. I checked out a video on Youtube:

    Video


    I also like the guy over there doing those crappy half-ish squats
    Last edited by berfles; 10-15-2007 at 02:28 PM.

  11. #10
    TJW Keith's Avatar
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    Age: 24 Height: 5'9" Weight: 185

    Gym PRs: 365/240/440=1045

    People need to quit ****ing asking what they need to do, exercise wise, until they reinforce their technique - Dave Tate

    The never-ending pursuit of becoming Strong(er) - My Westside journal

  12. #11
    Senior Member Phenom's Avatar
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    Basically, rack pulls are just deadlifts but you shorten the ROM to make it easier so you can do more weight. With any other exercise, this is called cheating. But with deadlifts, this is rack pulls!!!!

    Personally I focus on the complete lift, because I want my entire lift to increase, not just half of it.
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  13. #12
    Banned MPB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post

    Holy crap, this guy has sick shoulders

  14. #13
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phenom View Post
    Basically, rack pulls are just deadlifts but you shorten the ROM to make it easier so you can do more weight. With any other exercise, this is called cheating. But with deadlifts, this is rack pulls!!!!

    Personally I focus on the complete lift, because I want my entire lift to increase, not just half of it.
    LOL wait until you've been lifting a bit longer before you hold judgment on what's cheating and what's not.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  15. #14
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brihead301 View Post
    In addition to that "back exercises" thread, I think weighted pull-ups are a better back exercise then deadlifts. Don't get me wrong, deadlifts are the s***, and I love them, but I mostly feel them in my hamstrings, the back of my traps, my lower back, and my quads. Deadlifts are a great overall mass builder, but as for a primary upper back exercise though, weighted pull-ups definately are my #1 exercise. I do a few sets with a 25 lb or 45 lb weight attached, then finish by doing a few bodyweight sets to failure, and holy s*** do I feel it in my back the next day especially my lats and mid-upper back. I do it all for my back, because that's my #1 favorite body part to work, but weighted pull-ups take the cake.
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    LOL wait until you've been lifting a bit longer before you hold judgment on what's cheating and what's not.
    People can have their opinion based on whatever they want and cheating is a very broad term so you pretty much have to come up with whatever defenition you have. I think rack pulls are a good way to work on improving your deadlift. But it's still a partial range of motion movement that many people do to stroke their own ego.
    Last edited by smalls; 10-15-2007 at 08:12 PM.
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  16. #15
    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalls View Post
    But it's still a partial range of motion movement that many people do to stroke their own ego.


    I don't disagree with that. The OP made it sound as though the rack pull was nothing more than a waste of time.

    Fuck, fight, or hold the light.

  17. #16
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyPitbull View Post

    Holy crap, this guy has sick shoulders
    Wuz thinkin da same thing, yo.

    Reminds me of myself as a youth.

    I once used chalk... lol

    (seriously, I was thinking the same thing about the delts...)
    Last edited by BG5150; 10-15-2007 at 10:38 PM.
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  18. #17
    Senior Member Phenom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    LOL wait until you've been lifting a bit longer before you hold judgment on what's cheating and what's not.
    Bench pressing but stoping 8 inches from your chest instead of going all the way down...cheating

    Doing pullups and not pulling yourself all the way up...cheating

    Squating without even hitting parallel...cheating

    Deadlifting but starting with the bar above your knees...not cheating?

    Since you're a whole two years older and wiser than me, and I lack all this experience that you seem to have, maybe you can clear up some of my confusion.
    Age: 23 - Weight: 237 lbs - Height: 6'1''

    S(atg) - B - DL
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  19. #18
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say that rack pulls are cheating, nor would I say that squatting only 1/2 way is cheating either. These are ways of working on certain parts of the full range of motion. You could deadlift off a box with slightly lighter weight to help improve the initial lift part of a deadlift, or you could do rack pulls with much heavier weight to help strengthen the last part of a full deadlifts ROM. Same thing for squats - you could do squats either a.) through the full ROM, b.) only from the down position, parallel, to 1/2 way up with lighter weight, or c.) only go 1/2 way down and then back up again with heavier weight (aka cheating). But both 'b' and 'c' can help 'a' out by strengthening weak points within the full ROM

    So doing rack pulls with 405 lbs. may very well help increase your complete deadlift from 315 lbs. to 335 lbs rather then by just doing deadlifts alone.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by brihead301 View Post
    I wouldn't say that rack pulls are cheating, nor would I say that squatting only 1/2 way is cheating either.
    For purposes of calculating 1RM, its cheating. If someone says their max bench is 500lbs but they're not bringing the weight down, then their max bench isn't 500lbs. If you are doing pullups and not reaching the bar each time, its cheating. Etc, etc.

    Training a certain part of your ROM, isn't cheating.
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  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phenom View Post
    Bench pressing but stoping 8 inches from your chest instead of going all the way down...cheating

    Doing pullups and not pulling yourself all the way up...cheating

    Squating without even hitting parallel...cheating

    Deadlifting but starting with the bar above your knees...not cheating?

    Since you're a whole two years older and wiser than me, and I lack all this experience that you seem to have, maybe you can clear up some of my confusion.
    I donít consider it cheating unless someone is claiming a max base off their partial lift. Partial squatting is a good way to get used to heavy weight.

  22. #21
    Skinny is an Insult Brad263's Avatar
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    When you guys say for lats, what grip variation do you guys do? When I do wide grip overhand pullups I feel it in my shoulders a lot and not really my lats as much. Should I bring my grips in?
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  23. #22
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post

    I'd say that that guy likes pin pulls.

  24. #23
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad263 View Post
    When you guys say for lats, what grip variation do you guys do? When I do wide grip overhand pullups I feel it in my shoulders a lot and not really my lats as much. Should I bring my grips in?
    You don't really have to go that wide on pull-ups to work the s*** out of your lats. Slightly wider then shoulder with will do the trick. Also, if you can, add weight. That really works them.

  25. #24
    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phenom View Post
    Bench pressing but stoping 8 inches from your chest instead of going all the way down...cheating

    Doing pullups and not pulling yourself all the way up...cheating

    Squating without even hitting parallel...cheating

    Deadlifting but starting with the bar above your knees...not cheating?

    Since you're a whole two years older and wiser than me, and I lack all this experience that you seem to have, maybe you can clear up some of my confusion.
    It depends on the justification for the lift. You can't say that if the intent is to work the top end. For benching, the triceps are smaller than the chest, hence weaker. So the top end most people will stall towards the top or right off the chest where the triceps kick in. Doing pin presses or board presses are good to overload the triceps.

    Same goes for rack pulls for the deadlift. I'm not weak off the floor. I'm weak at lockout. I do rack pulls to fix that. It helps with grip and I can work on the transition without burning myself out by doing something I can already do.

    Is doing something to help the main lift (which will help in the long run) cheating?
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  26. #25
    The Man of Steel -Superman-'s Avatar
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    I never have done rackpulls and I was able to increase my deadlift over 350lbs (45lbs to 400+lbs) in a little over a year. Don't believe the hype is what I say. Also, I am going for real life functional situational strength. That is why I don't use belts, I don't warm up, and why I am not going to practice rack pulls which is basically having the deadlift bar a little higher so you don't use your whole range of motion. I am not saying rackpulls is cheating, it is just that when I plan to lift the side of a car in a few years, the car isn't going to be lifted a foot off the ground already. Different goals for different people.

    Last edited by -Superman-; 10-16-2007 at 09:54 AM.
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    155lbs [07-01-06] 176lbs [09-14-06] 179lbs [09-21-06] 182lbs [10-02-06] 184lbs [10-18-06] 186lbs [10-23-06] 187lbs [11-08-06] 189lbs [11-19-06] 190lbs [11-21-06] 191lbs [12-21-06] 194lbs [12-31-06]

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    Military: 111lbsx8; Dips: BWx30; Pullups: BWx10; WChestP: 360lbsx7; 45LegP: 470lbsx20; C Raise: 360lbs; BB Curl: 105lbsx3; Lat Pull: 195lbsx5

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