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Thread: This routine gets no love on this forum, but it's worth taking a look at

  1. #1
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    This routine gets no love on this forum, but it's worth taking a look at

    http://books.google.com/books?id=g5d...mBU79k#PPP1,M1

    Yup it's "The new rules of lifting" book.

    I'm sure some of you here have seen me suggest this routine when someone asks a question such as "What routine should I do?"

    I actually introduced myself to this forum with a thread titled "The new rules of lifting", as I'm sure some of you probably remember.

    In all my reading, researching, time, and effort on how to get stronger and bigger, I have never seen a routine (actually it's a series of routines) that is as good as this routine. Note: These are not typical powerlifting style routines such as Westside-Barbell, but they're also not typical "bodybuilding" routines either (you won't find any tricep kickbacks in it, I guarantee you). These routines are purely focused on strength and overall muscle mass building.

    It seems that two of the most common routine suggestions are Rippetoe's starting strength routine, and Built's Baby got Back routine. It's a real shame that more people don't know about "the new rules of lifting" routines (aka NROL).

    Baby got back is an excellently written routine, and it has many, many similarities to the theories that NROL is based on. Built really does know her stuff.

    First, NROL is entirely based on compound lifts. Every single exercise in every routine is based on squats, deadlifts, lunges, push, pull, and twist. There are many variations of these main 6 lifts (for instance good mornings would be considered a variation of a deadlift, or bulgarian split squat would be considered a variation of a lunge).

    Second, NROL is split by vertical push/pull, horizantal push/pull, Quad dominant, and Hamstring dominant just like Baby got back. If you're not going to do a full-body routine, this way is the best way to "split" your routine, IMO. It's much more balanced then doing something like push/pull/legs or a 5-day split.

    Third, NROL is 10 routines total. The "routine" is actually a series of routines that lasts 1 year. There are 3 "hypertrophy" routines, 3 "strength" routines, and 3 "fat loss" routines. There is also a 2-week long break-in routine that is suggested for everyone to do before starting this program, because this program is extremely challenging.

    Now I'm sure we all know that hypertrophy, strength, and fat-loss are all related to each other, so to put a label on something as purely "hypertrophy" or purely "strength" is a bit misleading, but he had to call each routine something. Actually, the "hypertrophy" routines are great strength building routines, but they still do build muscle mass like crazy. The "strength" routines are great muscle building routines, but they also build lots of mass as well. I'll explain about the "fat-loss" routines in a minute.

    The beauty behind the "hypertrophy" routines is that the set/rep/rest time ranges change every single workout. For instance "Hypertrophy 1" looks like this:

    It's an upper body/lower body split.

    upper body
    - Incline dumbell bench press superset with barbell rows
    - Dumbell shoulder press superset with pull-ups
    - Close grip flat barbell press superset with high pulls
    - swiss ball crunches

    Lower body
    - Squat
    - Deadlift
    - lunges superset with step-up (onto a platform that is about 2 1/2' high, with the same weight as for the lunges)
    - reverse crunches

    Alternate between upper body and lower body every time you go to the gym, and stick to the Heavy - moderate - light cycle. So it looks like:

    Monday: Heavy upper body
    sets of 5x5 with 90 seconds of rest between sets

    Thrusday: Moderate lower body
    sets of 4 x 10 with 60 seconds of rest between sets

    Saturday: Light upper body
    sets of 3 x 15 with 30 seconds of rest between sets

    Monday: Heavy lower body
    sets of 5x5 with 90 seconds of rest between sets

    Thrusday: Moderate upper body
    sets of 4 x 10 with 60 seconds of rest between sets

    Saturday: Light lower body
    sets of 3 x 15 with 30 seconds of rest between sets


    And the cylce repeats itself.

    This is just "hypertrophy 1". The higher rep ranges is why it gets labeled as a "hypertrophy" routine. This is really just preparation for "hypertrophy 2", which is a 3-day split that is vertical push/pull, legs, and horizantal push/pull. In "hypertrophy 2" the set/rep/rest times change every workout, but the the rep ranges are lower, and therefore the weight used is much heavier.

    The "hypertrophy" routines are preparation for the "strength" routines, which are much more intense, (not like the hypertrophy routines are a walk in the park though) and use very heavy weight and very low reps (just like your typical strength routine).

    The whole principle behind the program is to gain strength, and by gaining strength you get bigger, very simple. The good thing about it is that it's a very well thought out, periodized program that changes every few weeks to keep you motivated and interested. Also, due to all the changing of routines, you never really plateau. At least I haven't yet.

    The author of the book designed 4 sample programs that is a combination of the hypertrophy, strength, and fat-loss routines. As I said, each program lasts 1 year. The one I'm doing is called "For the guy who considers skinny an insult", and it looks like this:

    break-in: 2 weeks
    1 week off
    Hypertrophy 1: 6 weeks
    1 week off
    Hypertrophy 2: 8 weeks
    2 weeks off
    Strength 1: 4 weeks
    1 week off
    Strength 1: 4 weeks
    1 week off
    Hypertrophy 3: 8 weeks
    1 week off
    Strength 3: 6 weeks
    1 week off
    Fat-loss 2 and 3: 3 weeks
    2 weeks off

    Lather, rinse, and repeat.


    About the fat-loss routines - personally, I don't think I'm gonna mess with those. They are not ideal for building strength and muscle mass, but they are designed to do just what it says it will "burn fat". Those routines would be ideal for a 300 lb. guy with lots of body fat just trying to lose weight and get in better shape. There are sample programs for that type of person too. One is called "serious about lifting, but seriously overweight". That program starts out with "fat-loss" routines, then moves on to "strength", then onto "hypertrophy" I think (I'm not exactly sure what the order is for that program).

    Anyway, this program deserves some respect because it is the s***. BGB and Rippetoe's routines look like excellent programs too. I never tried them, but it's just a shame that not many people know about the program I'm doing.

    My results in 7 months so far:

    May 1st - 160 lbs, about 25% bodyfat
    Today - 198 lbs, about 14% bodyfat

    You do the math.

    No, I'm not a complete newbie. I've been lifting for about 6 years (poorly lifting by doing typical bodybuilding 5-day splits with lots of isolation crap, but still lifting) But yes, I did gain muscle and significantly drop my bodyfat in the past 7 months.

    I just thought I'd share with ya'll.

    BTW, I have all the routines on excel spreadsheets with an explanation of the sample year-long programs. I'll gladly send them to you if you send me a PM with your email address, but I'd definately spend the $25 and buy the book, it's definately worth it.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for the spreadsheet! So on the off weeks do you take the entire week completely off? Or do you do some sort of light work?

  3. #3
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    You're supposed to take the full week off from lifting all together, but I can't seem to do that, so I just do some easy lifting during the off weeks.

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    LOL thats what I figured, but like you, I cant keep myself out of the gym for a whole week. Not to mention later in the program it has like two weeks in a row off and stuff...And I laughed out loud when I read weeks 51-52 kill yourself!!!

  5. #5
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    I took all that time to write this, so I gotta give it a good bump.

  6. #6
    Couldn't find IAMBUFF.COM
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    How are the fat loss routines structured?

  7. #7
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    High reps, moderate weight, SHORT rest time. From everything I read on this forum:

    http://forums.jpfitness.com/new-rules-lifting-men/

    They are the S*** for fat-loss.

    I can't say how well the fat-loss routines work since I never tried them, but the Hypertrophy and strength routines are the of the best I've seen for building maximum muscle mass and strength simultaneously.

  8. #8
    Ex-Manwhore KingWilder's Avatar
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    see high reps/moderate weight would NOT work for me

    I prefer to lift heavy (5x5 for example and that's all, decreasing volume to make up for decreasing energy)...most of the "fat loss" comes from diet anyway, not really your routine
    5'10", 170lbs, 10% bf

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  9. #9
    Team Chesticles! Unholy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingWilder View Post
    see high reps/moderate weight would NOT work for me

    I prefer to lift heavy (5x5 for example and that's all, decreasing volume to make up for decreasing energy)...most of the "fat loss" comes from diet anyway, not really your routine
    Also I like the write up you did Bri.
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  10. #10
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingWilder View Post
    see high reps/moderate weight would NOT work for me

    I prefer to lift heavy (5x5 for example and that's all, decreasing volume to make up for decreasing energy)...most of the "fat loss" comes from diet anyway, not really your routine
    I agree, but as I said I never did the fat-loss routines. I did 2 of the hypertrophy routines, and 1 strength routine so far. They are amazing routines.

    I'm in the middle of the second strength routine, but I can't squat or deadlift for a short time due to an injury, so I can't really even say that I even started S-2 so far.

    As for the fat-loss routines, I agree that it's mostly diet, but take a look at some of these routines. They definately burn some calories. I wouldn't use them for a "cut" or anything, because they would most likely kill any muscle mass gained during a bulk, but if I was a 300 fat guy with no muscle just trying to slim down, I would definately consider them.

  11. #11
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Oh, and the hypertrophy and strength routines have you lifting very heavy weights. That's the whole point of the book - strength!

  12. #12
    B Locs b_locster's Avatar
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    Sounds like you got great results from the program. Would love to check out your excel sheets.(can't pm you until i get 15 posts in)

    I will try to get my hand on the book and give it a read.

    Cheers

  13. #13
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Ya man, when you can just send me a PM. I recommend the book to everyone though, it's a great book. It's a really interesting read too, because he writes with a sense of keeping the reader interested, just like a good author should. It kind of "enlightened" me as to the most effective way to train.

    NROL and Starting strength are the best 2 lifting books I ever read, both in their own way.

  14. #14
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    I always see that book at Barnes and Noble when I'm trying to find the Rippetoe one, but I never picked it up. Maybe I'll give it a look next time I'm there.
    22 - 5'10@236lbs!
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    The key to my exercise program is this one simple truth: I hate my body.

  15. #15
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Check it out man, it's in the library too if you don't feel like buying it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by brihead301 View Post
    My results in 7 months so far:

    May 1st - 160 lbs, about 25% bodyfat
    Today - 198 lbs, about 14% bodyfat

    You do the math.
    Ok, I did the math:

    May 1st - 40lbs of fat, 120lbs muscle
    Dec 1st - 28lbs of fat, 170lbs muscle

    So over 7 months you gained ~7lbs of muscle per month, while at the same time losing almost 2lbs of fat per month.

    Can you post your diet?

  17. #17
    Senior Member The Champion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Joshua View Post
    Ok, I did the math:

    May 1st - 40lbs of fat, 120lbs muscle
    Dec 1st - 28lbs of fat, 170lbs muscle

    So over 7 months you gained ~7lbs of muscle per month, while at the same time losing almost 2lbs of fat per month.

    Can you post your diet?
    Could be newbie gains. Keep in mind body fat readings are not that accurate. could be off by 4%

  18. #18
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    It was newbie gains. I never had a structured diet until I started this routine, and I never really worked my legs either. I just did the same lame chest/bi, back/tri, shoulder split for a few years straight. Before that, I did 4-day splits, and push/pull splits, and stuff like that with way too many isolation exercises.

    This was the first time I did a structured, periodized routine with a good diet. The more I learn about lifting, the more I realize how good and well-thought out these routines actually are. They are perfectly balanced.

    As for my bf%, I don't know if that's for sure, I never had it measured originally. I did have it measured a few weeks ago though, and it was about 14.5%. The 25% was just an estimate. All I know is that I had a nice big old gut forming, and I was about 160 lbs (I didn't weigh myself frequently back then either though, I just know that every time I stepped on a scale I was never more then 165 lbs.). Judging by pictures of people with 25% bf, I assumed that's where I was at.

    After 7 months, the gut was gone, and I was in the 195 - 198 range (197 this morning), and my bf% was 14.5%. I worked my ass off, don't get me wrong, but this routine was unique compared to any that I seen in any other books.

    It's all the about the changing of the rep ranges and rest times each workout, while simultaneously adding weight to the bar each workout. Everyone that tries it is usually pretty shocked at the quick and amazing results. I know this from this forum:
    http://forums.jpfitness.com/new-rules-lifting-men/

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by brihead301 View Post
    http://books.google.com/books?id=g5d...mBU79k#PPP1,M1

    ...
    Third, NROL is 10 routines total. The "routine" is actually a series of routines that lasts 1 year. There are 3 "hypertrophy" routines, 3 "strength" routines, and 3 "fat loss" routines. There is also a 2-week long break-in routine that is suggested for everyone to do before starting this program, because this program is extremely challenging.

    --- Maybe it's just me, but when I hear things like "hypertrophy routine", "strength routine" and "fat loss" routine I tend to tune out. Those are ALL dependent on diet far more than any routine. If you are not eating enough you will not get hypertrophy or strength. If you are eating too much you will not lose weight.---

    Now I'm sure we all know that hypertrophy, strength, and fat-loss are all related to each other, so to put a label on something as purely "hypertrophy" or purely "strength" is a bit misleading, but he had to call each routine something. Actually, the "hypertrophy" routines are great strength building routines, but they still do build muscle mass like crazy. The "strength" routines are great muscle building routines, but they also build lots of mass as well. I'll explain about the "fat-loss" routines in a minute.

    --- Again it is the caloric intake that is building the muscle mass. Any properly structured routine would do this.---

    The beauty behind the "hypertrophy" routines is that the set/rep/rest time ranges change every single workout. For instance "Hypertrophy 1" looks like this:

    It's an upper body/lower body split.

    upper body
    - Incline dumbell bench press superset with barbell rows
    - Dumbell shoulder press superset with pull-ups
    - Close grip flat barbell press superset with high pulls
    - swiss ball crunches

    Lower body
    - Squat
    - Deadlift
    - lunges superset with step-up (onto a platform that is about 2 1/2' high, with the same weight as for the lunges)
    - reverse crunches

    Alternate between upper body and lower body every time you go to the gym, and stick to the Heavy - moderate - light cycle. So it looks like:

    Monday: Heavy upper body
    sets of 5x5 with 90 seconds of rest between sets

    Thrusday: Moderate lower body
    sets of 4 x 10 with 60 seconds of rest between sets

    Saturday: Light upper body
    sets of 3 x 15 with 30 seconds of rest between sets

    Monday: Heavy lower body
    sets of 5x5 with 90 seconds of rest between sets

    Thrusday: Moderate upper body
    sets of 4 x 10 with 60 seconds of rest between sets

    Saturday: Light lower body
    sets of 3 x 15 with 30 seconds of rest between sets


    And the cylce repeats itself.

    --- So it's your basic upper/lower split in other words---

    This is just "hypertrophy 1". The higher rep ranges is why it gets labeled as a "hypertrophy" routine. This is really just preparation for "hypertrophy 2", which is a 3-day split that is vertical push/pull, legs, and horizantal push/pull. In "hypertrophy 2" the set/rep/rest times change every workout, but the the rep ranges are lower, and therefore the weight used is much heavier.

    The "hypertrophy" routines are preparation for the "strength" routines, which are much more intense, (not like the hypertrophy routines are a walk in the park though) and use very heavy weight and very low reps (just like your typical strength routine).

    The whole principle behind the program is to gain strength, and by gaining strength you get bigger, very simple. The good thing about it is that it's a very well thought out, periodized program that changes every few weeks to keep you motivated and interested. Also, due to all the changing of routines, you never really plateau. At least I haven't yet.

    --- Are you changing exercises as well in these routines?---

    The author of the book designed 4 sample programs that is a combination of the hypertrophy, strength, and fat-loss routines. As I said, each program lasts 1 year. The one I'm doing is called "For the guy who considers skinny an insult", and it looks like this:

    break-in: 2 weeks
    1 week off
    Hypertrophy 1: 6 weeks
    1 week off
    Hypertrophy 2: 8 weeks
    2 weeks off
    Strength 1: 4 weeks
    1 week off
    Strength 1: 4 weeks
    1 week off
    Hypertrophy 3: 8 weeks
    1 week off
    Strength 3: 6 weeks
    1 week off
    Fat-loss 2 and 3: 3 weeks
    2 weeks off

    Lather, rinse, and repeat.


    --- Cycles that are 3-4 weeks long? Why so short?---

    About the fat-loss routines - personally, I don't think I'm gonna mess with those. They are not ideal for building strength and muscle mass, but they are designed to do just what it says it will "burn fat". Those routines would be ideal for a 300 lb. guy with lots of body fat just trying to lose weight and get in better shape. There are sample programs for that type of person too. One is called "serious about lifting, but seriously overweight". That program starts out with "fat-loss" routines, then moves on to "strength", then onto "hypertrophy" I think (I'm not exactly sure what the order is for that program).

    Anyway, this program deserves some respect because it is the s***. BGB and Rippetoe's routines look like excellent programs too. I never tried them, but it's just a shame that not many people know about the program I'm doing.

    My results in 7 months so far:

    May 1st - 160 lbs, about 25% bodyfat
    Today - 198 lbs, about 14% bodyfat

    You do the math.

    No, I'm not a complete newbie. I've been lifting for about 6 years (poorly lifting by doing typical bodybuilding 5-day splits with lots of isolation crap, but still lifting) But yes, I did gain muscle and significantly drop my bodyfat in the past 7 months.

    --- But in your last post you said your gains were newbie gains. As for your gains since (by your own admission you never really worked legs or had a proper diet) I'd be suprised if (once those things were in place) you DIDN'T make gains.---

    I just thought I'd share with ya'll.

    BTW, I have all the routines on excel spreadsheets with an explanation of the sample year-long programs. I'll gladly send them to you if you send me a PM with your email address, but I'd definately spend the $25 and buy the book, it's definately worth it.
    ---I don't know...you can get pretty much the same info from this forum...you just have to look for it.---
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 12-10-2007 at 09:42 PM.

  20. #20
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    I think the changing in routine is good but the authors lost a lot of validity with me when they starting in with the fat loss structured routines with higher volumes.

  21. #21
    Senior Member smalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Joshua View Post
    Ok, I did the math:

    May 1st - 40lbs of fat, 120lbs muscle
    Dec 1st - 28lbs of fat, 170lbs muscle

    So over 7 months you gained ~7lbs of muscle per month, while at the same time losing almost 2lbs of fat per month.

    Can you post your diet?
    Or better yet pics.

    Not saying you didnt make awesome progress but it sounds like you might be off in your overall measurements, and I just like seeing progress pics. Either way, it looks like a good program that worked very well for you. A little unnecassarily complicated but i'm sure it would be great for most people, provided diet was in line.
    Last edited by smalls; 12-10-2007 at 11:11 PM.
    Diet is key, the calorie is king

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  22. #22
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smalls View Post
    Or better yet pics.

    Not saying you didnt make awesome progress but it sounds like you might be off in your overall measurements, and I just like seeing progress pics. Either way, it looks like a good program that worked very well for you. A little unnecassarily complicated but i'm sure it would be great for most people, provided diet was in line.
    I wish I had pics of me before I started the program all together. I didn't start taking pictures until I was already 5 months into it. It was the first 5 months that I made the most progress too. Like I said though, the bf% was just estimated. I may have been less then 25% originally, but I did have a nice sized gut so 25% was a reasonable estimate. The 35 lb. gain while losing my gut is 100% accurate. I'm now between 195 - 198 with 14% bf at a height of 5'11", which is the best shape I've ever been in.

  23. #23
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Songsangnim View Post
    ---I don't know...you can get pretty much the same info from this forum...you just have to look for it.---
    I agree completely about the "hypertrophy" and "strength" routines being a little ridiculously labeled. Yes, it is all dependent on diet. It's just that the "hypertrophy" routines have changing set/rep/rest time ranges every workout and the "strength" routines don't. The strength routines focus on the squat one day, deadlift another, horizantal push/pull another, and vertical push/pull another.

    Here's the routines, if you want to take a look at it:
    http://www.sendspace.com/file/hnb5vx

    Ignore where there are numbers filled in for some of the routines. Those were just the numbers that I was working with.

    And yes, you can find all the proper information in this forum, it's just that so many people are unable to find the right info. How many people do you see that want their routines that they made up critiqued, and the routines are ultra-high volume routines with tons of arm isolation stuff? This routine is one that was well-written and layed out over a year time period.

    It keeps changing too, which really helps to keep the motivation up.
    Last edited by brihead301; 12-11-2007 at 06:50 AM.

  24. #24
    B Locs b_locster's Avatar
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    Cheers for setting up the down loadable link. I was curious to check it out. I agree with switching it up to keep things fresh.

  25. #25
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Hypertrophy 1 and Strength 2 were my favorites. Strength 2, I just do "walk-outs" instead of quarter squats. That's just to get yourself used to holding more weight on your back, which takes a lot of effort in itself IMO.

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