The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Itís no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    0

    antioxidants - who knows their shi.... stuff here?

    Last I heard the antioxidant realm was pretty uncharted, anyone here with a good understanding want to bring some of us up to speed?

    << stuffs like recycling antioxidants, ratios, usage, effects, etc etc etc etc >>
    Go now, run along and tell your xerxes he faces free men here, not slaves

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    OG SDS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Sweet Home
    Posts
    450
    They come from raw fruits and vegetables. Raw, fresh blueberries are supposed to be the antioxidant, but all fruits and vegetables can claim the title of antioxidant. Eating them raw is the key, as heat from cooking destroys the enzymes, antioxidant properties, etc., etc..

  4. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    0
    ...

    I'm actually speaking more in terms of the larger antioxidant / free radical paradigm, sorry for being unclear in the original post. Antioxidants + free radical = neutral. ALA potentiates (or is it recycles) antioxidants such as vit C or E. Vit C and E also have relations to each other in their capacities. Melatonin is a unique antioxidant in its recycling (proper word?) abilities.

    Looking for more in depth discussion on the role of antioxidants and free radicals.
    Go now, run along and tell your xerxes he faces free men here, not slaves

  5. #4
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,620
    Chemistry to the rescue!

    Basically, a radical is a molecule/atom with a lone electron. This bugger does not like being like that. It doesnt like being in that state so much that it can basically react and give its electron to ANYTHING in your body from DNA to proteins and so on. The substance that gets the electron becomes unstable and breaks down. This can cause mitochondrial DNA damage which can cause death, and is the root of the whole "eat less live longer thing". As you create ATP (look that up if you dont know what it is) from glucose, often electrons during the electron transport phase can attach to a molecule turning it into a free radical.

    At this point it can do 2 things

    1) A molecule that wants a single electron can come by and basically neutralize that radical protecting your body. This can be done through antioxidants that we eat or the ones we produce naturally.

    2) It can cause damage to your cell walls, mitochondria DNA...

    How do antioxidants work? Well, basically every anti oxidant is a reducing agent, and a good one at that. That means it donates electron pairs really easily (note how it donates pairs and not single electrons). Once it gives up its electron pair it has the ability to pick up other electrons from free radicals very easily. As a result, it serves as a protector and a giver of electrons making it extremely useful. This also allows vitamin C to be recycled as it gives electron pairs and grabs free radicals only to start it all over.

    Please note that the donation of electron pairs is a lot different than a free radical. Vitamin C is stable with its pair thus not reacting with everything in sight.

    Sorry I couldnt give an even more in depth answer but alas, im not a biochemist.

    As a little aside...
    Why do they always say fresh vegetables and fruit have more antioxidants? Well if you read above youll know that antioxidants like to give up their electrons. Our atmosphere is now an oxidizing atmosphere (as opposed to ancient earth/venus which is a reducing atmosphere). Oxygen needs two electrons to fill its valence shell IE be stable. Well guess what? Those antioxidants have electrons to give! As a result, oxygen comes in and ****s up the antioxidants.

    Its funny though, we just learned that strong reducing agents are colourful... guess my prof was right considering fruit and veggies have tons of reducing agents!
    Last edited by BFGUITAR; 12-05-2007 at 05:28 PM.

  6. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    0
    "Well, basically every anti oxidant is a reducing agent, and a good one at that. "

    But I thought there were very, very different categories in the antioxidant realm, for instance if you look at the group of alpha-lipoic acid, vitamin C, vitamin E, and melatonin, they are all quite different in their activities (be it fat / water soluble in the first place and restricted access, or a regenerative/recycling antioxidant, etc).

    Also, based on how you wrote that, are you asserting that, ideally, you'd have any and all free radicals neutralized immediately? Is there zero need for free radicals at any function/time? No feedback mechanisms dependent upon them? What about too many antioxidants, is that bad? How bad?

    I'm sorry to be rapid firing questions, I find this whole thing quite fascinating given that some people espouse the idea of free radicals being quite pivotal in both aging and cancer - but dunno how developed or accepted those ideas are.
    Go now, run along and tell your xerxes he faces free men here, not slaves

  7. #6
    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    3,620
    Quote Originally Posted by jdeity View Post
    "Well, basically every anti oxidant is a reducing agent, and a good one at that. "

    But I thought there were very, very different categories in the antioxidant realm, for instance if you look at the group of alpha-lipoic acid, vitamin C, vitamin E, and melatonin, they are all quite different in their activities (be it fat / water soluble in the first place and restricted access, or a regenerative/recycling antioxidant, etc).

    Also, based on how you wrote that, are you asserting that, ideally, you'd have any and all free radicals neutralized immediately? Is there zero need for free radicals at any function/time? No feedback mechanisms dependent upon them? What about too many antioxidants, is that bad? How bad?

    I'm sorry to be rapid firing questions, I find this whole thing quite fascinating given that some people espouse the idea of free radicals being quite pivotal in both aging and cancer - but dunno how developed or accepted those ideas are.
    "But I thought there were very, very different categories in the antioxidant realm, for instance if you look at the group of alpha-lipoic acid, vitamin C, vitamin E, and melatonin, they are all quite different in their activities (be it fat / water soluble in the first place and restricted access, or a regenerative/recycling antioxidant, etc)."

    There are different categories. Some are stronger some are weaker. The fat soluble ones dispose of free radicals where water soluble antioxidants cant go and water soluble antioxidants dispose of free radicals where fat soluble ones cant go. More or less all antioxidants are "recycling".

    "Also, based on how you wrote that, are you asserting that, ideally, you'd have any and all free radicals neutralized immediately? Is there zero need for free radicals at any function/time? No feedback mechanisms dependent upon them? What about too many antioxidants, is that bad? How bad?"


    Free radicals are generally not wanted biologically speaking. They are created in the chloroplast and the mitochondria. In the mitochondria we need electrons to create a charge gradient between a membrane. Complex 1 on the electron transport chain is where most electron leakage occurs. The rate at which free radicals are neutralized/mess up something is on the scale of nanoseconds. Once they are created they shortly break down. If there is an increase of free radicals our body uses an enzyme SOD to take the free radical (dioxygen with a negative charge) and turn it into dioxygen with no charge using an electron acceptor (usually a metal). Now we ALWAYS use SOD. Its always on and without it we would die. But we create more of it if needed.

    Too much of anything is bad, you know that.

    About cancer and aging...

    The root of cancer and aging has to do with damages cell and most of all DNA in the mitocondria. As we grow older the free radicals that we produce damage our cells and DNA. SOD isnt perfect, but it works pretty well. Damaged DNA can than be repaired by our body thus negating any problems. But sometimes the damage isnt repaired and when the DNA goes through replication that damage is copied and therefore we have a mutation in our DNA (its only a mutation if its copied). Antioxidants come into the picture by neutralizing free radicals before they can do harm.


    This would all make more sense if ya read up on some chem stuff. If your interested try taking a biochem course.

  8. #7
    Senior Member djreef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Conroe, TX
    Posts
    455
    The gist of it is to get your antioxidants from a number of sources (ie different types of brightly colored fruits and veges), or find a real good greens mix to supplement with. Anti-oxidants in food sources (phyto chemicals, carotenoids, poly-phenols, etc.) are natural preservatives that help to prevent pre-mature rotting of said fruits and veges. The fruit has to ripen about the same time that the seeds finish developing, or everything is a bust for the reproduction of plant in question. The antioxidants ensure this happens by protecting both from the oxidative effects of the environment. As an evolutionary aside, we as consuming organisms, have incorporated these into our bio make-up, as well.

    DJ

  9. #8
    Wannabebig New Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1

    teenager and very skinny

    Hello friends, I am a teenager and very skinny and have almost no fat at all. I just recently started working out at the local gym. I was reading an article in a magazine a few days ago that talked about incorporating a diet plan into your work out plan. I really don't want to have to follow a specific diet. I just put anything into my mouth that tastes good, foods that are healthy and others that are probably not so healthy. I just want to gain some muscle mass. How important is your diet when working out on a weekly basis?

  10. #9
    GreenG mickyjune26's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Denton, TX (by Dallas)
    Posts
    1,515
    Quote Originally Posted by xboxchamp593 View Post
    Hello friends, I am a teenager and very skinny and have almost no fat at all. I just recently started working out at the local gym. I was reading an article in a magazine a few days ago that talked about incorporating a diet plan into your work out plan. I really don't want to have to follow a specific diet. I just put anything into my mouth that tastes good, foods that are healthy and others that are probably not so healthy. I just want to gain some muscle mass. How important is your diet when working out on a weekly basis?
    LOL - start a new thread and ask that question.
    Want to be big? READ WBB ARTICLES!
    Deads 06 245...07 375...08 565---- Squat 2006 175.....2007 315----2008 505----Bench '06 155.....'07 260....'08 385---- weight - 260
    Goals:
    (11-08)Hit 1450 geared (class III - 600/500/350) current - 1455 geared
    Journal - Pics - ...9

  11. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    0
    yeah click 'new thread' in this subforum (diet/nutrition) and people will help you a ton - I'm inclined to start answering your q's but nobody else will really see/help since you're kind of in a specific antioxidant thread, the traffic here won't be as high.
    Go now, run along and tell your xerxes he faces free men here, not slaves

Similar Threads

  1. Antioxidants and comparison via ORAC values
    By jazer80 in forum Diet and Nutrition
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-09-2006, 06:01 PM
  2. Time lengths, regeneration, and stuff...:p
    By Malovian in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-31-2003, 01:05 PM
  3. tanning stuff and oils?
    By Alke in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-18-2003, 09:34 PM
  4. Woodworking and Building Stuff
    By ElPietro in forum General Chat
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-10-2003, 01:09 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •