The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
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    Huge Bicep Question

    Hey

    Somone who frequents these forums told me that there are people on here that say

    A) Bent over barbell rows & Chinups

    are better workouts for your bicep, AND that your lifting more weight on your biceps, so therefore it will get your biceps bigger rather then

    B) Barbell bicep curl, and any other isolation curl.

    PLEASE TELL ME

    How you think that a MULTI joint excercise, would work your bicep better than a isolation excercise.

    AND

    WHOEVER came up with this VERY WRONG "Theory", PLEASE post the equation that would help determine how much weight your actually putting on your bicep. Cause if theres no proper equation this THEORY is WRONG and FLAWED..

    Thanks i await your argument

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  3. #2
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    WHOEVER came up with this VERY WRONG "Theory", PLEASE post the equation that would help determine how much weight your actually putting on your bicep. Cause if theres no proper equation this THEORY is WRONG and FLAWED..
    Where is your theory that the opposite is true?
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  4. #3
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    this guy is about to get pwned

  5. #4
    Team Intense pbal17's Avatar
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    I dont know who said that bent over barbell row or chin ups is a better BICEP (im borrowing you capitals) exercise...they prolly said that the two are a better EXERCISE in a general sense.

    just clearing that up.

    i dont think anyone anywhere who wants to just work on their biceps is gonna be like i know, lets do barbell rows. but sure, come firing in spewing hearsay without any proof that anyone said this other than "my friend said that you guys were saying....."

    idiot

  6. #5
    Big Swinging Dick dxiw's Avatar
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    hehehehehe

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  7. #6
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    I used to be in the "chinups and barbell rows" crowd which dominates this site, but not too long ago I took a step back and realized that this approach wasn't working for me at all.

    Take a look around at the gym. A lot of those "curl jockeys" people make fun of around here have pretty damn big arms (and hell, big chests even too). I don't see how people can continue to argue with results like that, but whatever.

  8. #7
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_18 View Post
    Hey

    Somone who frequents these forums told me that there are people on here that say

    A) Bent over barbell rows & Chinups

    are better workouts for your bicep, AND that your lifting more weight on your biceps, so therefore it will get your biceps bigger rather then

    B) Barbell bicep curl, and any other isolation curl.

    PLEASE TELL ME

    How you think that a MULTI joint excercise, would work your bicep better than a isolation excercise.

    AND

    WHOEVER came up with this VERY WRONG "Theory", PLEASE post the equation that would help determine how much weight your actually putting on your bicep. Cause if theres no proper equation this THEORY is WRONG and FLAWED..

    Thanks i await your argument

    Unless you provide an equation to prove the "theory" as being incorrect, you are in no position to say that the "theory" is incorrect and demand an equation proving otherwise.

  9. #8
    Senior Member diesel_dan's Avatar
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    Those exercises were probably recommended to you in a sense that they are in general a "better" exercise. Being as they are compound; therefore target more than once muscle group. Whilst isolation exercises (example: preacher curls) usually only target one muscle group. So looking at it, one would tend to believe: the more the better - the more muscles being worked, the better off you are.

    However, if your biceps are lagging maybe they do need some isolation work.
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  10. #9
    5-0-9 Barbell WORLD's Avatar
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    Little stones italian boys in Subway restaurants are attracted to Gordon....
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  11. #10
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Do some chinups and underhanded barbell rows and tell me your bis don't grow.

    What do you think will end up hitting your bis harder: curls with 40lbs or rows with 225lbs?

    I hate bicep work... I trained them directly a handful of times over the summer but trained my back HARD several times a week. What happened? Over 2 inches of growth in a 3-4 month period.







    Yes, there are curl/bench jockeys with some pretty defined arms and chests... Large? Not many.. When was the last time you saw someone with 20" guns that had a small back? Probably not very often. How about a 50 inch chest with small legs? Again, probably not very often.

    The guys admiring the curl/bench jockeys are the guys that want the beach physique. Which is fine by me... If you want that, go for it. If you want to be a real freak, get your ass under the bar and do some REAL HEAVY LIFTING!
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  12. #11
    Squat Heavy, Squat Often Cards's Avatar
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    Most back exercises hit bi's indirectly. If you're doing heavy back exercises your arms are going to grow to compensate for the weight....I don't know about you but it seems like common sense to me....maybe that's just something you lack. Please, go crawl back under the rock you came from.
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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Do some chinups and underhanded barbell rows and tell me your bis don't grow.

    What do you think will end up hitting your bis harder: curls with 40lbs or rows with 225lbs?

    I hate bicep work... I trained them directly a handful of times over the summer but trained my back HARD several times a week. What happened? Over 2 inches of growth in a 3-4 month period.







    Yes, there are curl/bench jockeys with some pretty defined arms and chests... Large? Not many.. When was the last time you saw someone with 20" guns that had a small back? Probably not very often. How about a 50 inch chest with small legs? Again, probably not very often.

    The guys admiring the curl/bench jockeys are the guys that want the beach physique. Which is fine by me... If you want that, go for it. If you want to be a real freak, get your ass under the bar and do some REAL HEAVY LIFTING!
    100% accurate.

    End of story.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by berfles View Post
    Where is your theory that the opposite is true?
    ok your like 13 lbs dunno why your talking.


    one major point is the long head of the bicep crosses the shoulder joint thats why alot of the time when you see people doing curls they end up moving there elbows a bit higher.

    and to the guy who says yours doing 225lbs on row as opposed to doing 40lbs on bicep curls??

    Thats the dumbest argument i've heard in my life. you have nothing to back it up.

    what you just told me was since your doing bent overs your doing more on your biceps??? How the hell is a multi joint excercise more effective then a isolation excercise? NOONE has answered that question? and how can you prove that your doing more weight on your becep?? Cause everyone knows that the majority of your weight is placed on your back.


    What major joint action is used in a bicep curl?? a= Elbow Flexion

    What major joint action is used in a barbell row?? a= retraction of the scapular.


    So far every reponse you've given me sounds dumb.

    your argument is basically

    "It just does"

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by deeder View Post
    Do some chinups and underhanded barbell rows and tell me your bis don't grow.

    What do you think will end up hitting your bis harder: curls with 40lbs or rows with 225lbs?

    I hate bicep work... I trained them directly a handful of times over the summer but trained my back HARD several times a week. What happened? Over 2 inches of growth in a 3-4 month period.





    Yes, there are curl/bench jockeys with some pretty defined arms and chests... Large? Not many.. When was the last time you saw someone with 20" guns that had a small back? Probably not very often. How about a 50 inch chest with small legs? Again, probably not very often.

    The guys admiring the curl/bench jockeys are the guys that want the beach physique. Which is fine by me... If you want that, go for it. If you want to be a real freak, get your ass under the bar and do some REAL HEAVY LIFTING!

    ok then i'll come right back to you and tell you DO SOME BARBELL BICEP CURLS AND TELL ME YOUR BICEPS DONT GROW..


    And your bottom argument is the dumbest crock of **** i've heard in my life.

    is your argument really gonna be

    "I see big guys with big legs doing that so that must be right. and i see sam ll guys doing curls so it must be wrong. Cause thats what you just told half the board. I swear so far i havent recieved one intelligent answer, not only that i feel like i'm arguing with 13 yrolds

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cards View Post
    Most back exercises hit bi's indirectly. If you're doing heavy back exercises your arms are going to grow to compensate for the weight....I don't know about you but it seems like common sense to me....maybe that's just something you lack. Please, go crawl back under the rock you came from.
    LOL OK

    So hitting your biceps indirectly is better then hitting them directly?? you just made yourself sound like a child.. o **** your 5'6 166lbs your are a child.

    Wheres the equation that says i'm going to be doing more weight on my BICEPS when i'm doing a row??

    basically your all telling me is

    if i'm doing a 225lb row more weight is going to be on my biceps, as oppose to doing 90 lbs on a barbell curl.

    How did you determin that my bicep is utilizing more weight??
    What its utilizing more weight cause i'm rowing 225??

    pfft please if you use that to back your Flawed theory then odn't post

  17. #16
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    I think isolation exercise is more effective BTW. I think some people are just saying that doing exercises like chins and barbell curls will affectively work your biceps and your biceps will grow proportionately with your body by doing Indirect exercises. I could be wrong.

  18. #17
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    i find it amusing that with the nonstop mockery of people that refuse to directly answer your question, you still do not answer theirs.

    yes, biceps will grow when you do direct work
    yes, biceps will also grow well when you do indirect arm work

    what the common thing around here is, why do an isolation excersize that is damn near useless in a real world situation compared to a multijoint excersize that is real life useful? whens the last time you curled a log to get it off the ground, opposed to bending over or bending down to lift it up?

    post your pictures, your height and weight, and where you so imply that you are 'super educated on this'", and dont quote me. because i said imply


    and go ahead, pick on me. im 17, im weak, i know it. but i also do know how to pick points in an arguement.
    Last edited by andrewnp; 01-12-2008 at 07:25 AM.

  19. #18
    Ex-Manwhore KingWilder's Avatar
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    compound > isolation

    everytime.


    Did you seriously come here JUST to argue...you must have a sad sad life.
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  20. #19
    Only happy when bulking radioheadhead's Avatar
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    don't feed the troll.
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  21. #20
    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_18 View Post
    ok your like 13 lbs dunno why your talking.


    one major point is the long head of the bicep crosses the shoulder joint thats why alot of the time when you see people doing curls they end up moving there elbows a bit higher.
    No, they move their elbow higher because the momentum helps them complete the curl. That's a form issue. Not something related to the strain put on the bicep.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_18 View Post
    and to the guy who says yours doing 225lbs on row as opposed to doing 40lbs on bicep curls??

    Thats the dumbest argument i've heard in my life. you have nothing to back it up.
    How can that be a dumb argument? I do a set of 15 with 40lbs for DB curls and I would do a set of 10 with 225lbs on rows. The biceps will be doing a lot more work during my heavy row. Think about it... Yes, you pull with your back... But how is that for applied if your biceps aren't getting hit? We could get into torque and resultant forces if you want.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_18 View Post
    what you just told me was since your doing bent overs your doing more on your biceps??? How the hell is a multi joint excercise more effective then a isolation excercise? NOONE has answered that question? and how can you prove that your doing more weight on your becep?? Cause everyone knows that the majority of your weight is placed on your back.
    Yes people have answered your question. Because you are moving more weight. Plain and simple.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_18 View Post
    What major joint action is used in a bicep curl?? a= Elbow Flexion

    What major joint action is used in a barbell row?? a= retraction of the scapular.
    Correct. Is there not elbow flexion involved in a row? Seriously... Have you ever done a row?



    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_18 View Post
    So far every reponse you've given me sounds dumb.

    your argument is basically

    "It just does"
    Your lack of argument sounds dumb.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_18 View Post
    ok then i'll come right back to you and tell you DO SOME BARBELL BICEP CURLS AND TELL ME YOUR BICEPS DONT GROW..
    I spent the first 4 years of my lifting career as a curl/bench jockey. I was ripped and had some sweet 13" biceps. I trained them almost everyday with several variations of curls. I have seen explosive growth in the past 2 years thanks to some real heavy training.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_18 View Post
    And your bottom argument is the dumbest crock of **** i've heard in my life.

    is your argument really gonna be

    "I see big guys with big legs doing that so that must be right. and i see sam ll guys doing curls so it must be wrong. Cause thats what you just told half the board. I swear so far i havent recieved one intelligent answer, not only that i feel like i'm arguing with 13 yrolds
    Answer my question then... How many men have you seen with 20" biceps who have small backs? How many men with 50" chests have you seen with small legs? My guess is very few.. Your view of what works is based on the physique you hope to achieve. If everyone's goal was to get some 15" guns and bench 225lbs these forums would be a lot less active.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_18 View Post
    LOL OK

    So hitting your biceps indirectly is better then hitting them directly?? you just made yourself sound like a child.. o **** your 5'6 166lbs your are a child.

    Wheres the equation that says i'm going to be doing more weight on my BICEPS when i'm doing a row??
    Why do you need an equation.. Seriously, try out some underhanded barbell curls. You want the pump, do sets of 15. I ask again, have you ever done a barbell row?


    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon_18 View Post
    basically your all telling me is

    if i'm doing a 225lb row more weight is going to be on my biceps, as oppose to doing 90 lbs on a barbell curl.

    How did you determin that my bicep is utilizing more weight??
    What its utilizing more weight cause i'm rowing 225??

    pfft please if you use that to back your Flawed theory then odn't post
    Ok, where's your proof that compound movements are LESS effective than isolation exercises?

    You came here opposing the view of some of out members. The burden of proof should then be with you.




    Finally, you are a tool.
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  22. #21
    Senior Member berfles's Avatar
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    ok your like 13 lbs dunno why your talking.
    Silly me, I forgot you had to be 500lbs to make a comment to someone as genius as yourself. That's why you came here asking such a stupid question and backing it up with such a stupid "theory" and claim. It's why you joined a site just to start a debate over this when clearly you want to listen to nothing anyone has to say, and make third grade insults when someone asks a question. You know nothing about it, you probably sit on the couch all day, and you don't even know the English language well enough to type properly.


    Go back to BB.com and look for your HGH answers and continue taking pictures fully clothed because you're too shy to show off your skin. Or maybe you'd be better off causing more car accidents and wondering if you can screw the person over even though it was your own damn fault because you're such a pompous tool.
    Last edited by berfles; 01-12-2008 at 08:47 AM.
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  23. #22
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    somebody's cycle went way out of whack

  24. #23
    Senior Member bill's Avatar
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    It's not really about not doing direct bicep work. The site is promoting intelligent training. Not being a curl jockey, do your squats, and compound moves. Nothing wrong with doing a few sets of biceps by themselves, there is just a strong argument for how much this is needed. Especially until you get to certain levels. That is my take
    Every forum has certain views, go to bodybuilding.com and tell them a arm day is not needed. lol
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