The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

Its no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Wannabebig Member
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    Shoulder work for raw bench

    Hey guys i am currently training all raw in the bench. I had been doing 5x5's for a while and am now doing a little speed work also. Do you get carryover out of overhead pressing like military press and dumbell presses. Or do most big raw benchers cut the shoulder work down?

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  3. #2
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    There are lots of factors that can be involved in this. Are you relatively new to lifting? I would say when in doubt, include enough shoulder work. Adding to this, some rotator cuff work since this is shoulder related, keeping the shoulders healthy will allow you to keep lifting and for longer which will also add to a bigger bench.

  4. #3
    Senior Member gmen5681's Avatar
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    shoulder work is very important from beginner to elite. im not a big benched by any means, but i do know that all the big benchers do a bunch of shoulder work. oh press/military press is probably the biggest one used. its used a bunch in the 5/3/1 method.

  5. #4
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    Overhead work has always helped my BP. The key is to figure out how to fit it in without beating up my shoulders too much. You could use it as an assistance exercise on your speed day (assuming you have ME and DE bench days). I'm tinkering with rotating heavy overhead work in every other week on my heavy BP day. One week I'm do a heavy BP movement followed by a light overhead movement for assitance work and then the next week do a heavy overhead press followed by a light BP assistance movement.

  6. #5
    Super Moderator vdizenzo's Avatar
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    Overhead was a big part of my program for a long time and it helped tremendously. I will say this. For most of my pressing I would only bring the weight down to eye to chin level. For me that took away from rotator problems. Plus I have very little upper body flexibility anway.


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  7. #6
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    I always liked over head pressess off the pins in a rack seated. Took all the negative injury prone pieces out of the lift.
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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottYard View Post
    I always liked over head pressess off the pins in a rack seated. Took all the negative injury prone pieces out of the lift.
    How do you include them in your routine? After benching or on its own day, reps etc.

  9. #8
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    I noticed when I added db ohp into my training My raw benching felt stronger and more stable.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinse View Post
    How do you include them in your routine? After benching or on its own day, reps etc.
    I did them after benching with a closer grip for some tricep work too. I ripped it off a Westside bench video with kenny patterson doing them. I figured if they worked for him, they might work for me.
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  11. #10
    Senior Member Ryan Celli's Avatar
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    shoulder work

    Yes shoulder work is very important for raw benching. The key is to not over train them. They get worked alot when benching raw, and indirectly get worked on almost every exercise you do. I do direct shoulder work once a week. I favor seated dumbbell presses and some lateral raises sometimes. I usually only need 3-5 sets total for presses. I would recommend doing them on a seperate day other than bench. If you a beginner it will be important to make sure you working them good to build a solid base.

  12. #11
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    Hey guys thanks for all the responses. I have been lifting for about 5 years as i am about to turn 20. I had my raw bench up to 500 but began working with shirts and now 475 moves slow and feels heavy. My best in a single ply shirt was 650 in training and 575 in competiton. Now my focus is on raw bench I am abandoning the shirts. I plan on benching heavy once a week on sundays and maybe 4 sets of 3 for speed on Wednesdays. I usually work a full shoulder workout on Wednesdays so would it be ok to do speed before a full shoulder workout.

  13. #12
    Pro Powerlifter AJ Roberts's Avatar
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    I was my strongest raw back when I was doing heavy overhead kettlebell work. Louie always says that when George Halbert and Kenny Patterson held the WR's they used to do a lot of overhead work along with tons of dumbbell presses and floor presses.
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  14. #13
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigman135 View Post
    Hey guys thanks for all the responses. I have been lifting for about 5 years as i am about to turn 20. I had my raw bench up to 500 but began working with shirts and now 475 moves slow and feels heavy. My best in a single ply shirt was 650 in training and 575 in competiton. Now my focus is on raw bench I am abandoning the shirts. I plan on benching heavy once a week on sundays and maybe 4 sets of 3 for speed on Wednesdays. I usually work a full shoulder workout on Wednesdays so would it be ok to do speed before a full shoulder workout.

    4 sets of 3 would not be enough for speed work. At least 8 is what you need.

    Doing shoulder work on your speed day is alright so long as the weight is kept light. If you want to go heavy on the shoulder work, do it on your heavy bench day so they have the rest of the week to recover.


    Quote Originally Posted by AJ Roberts View Post
    I was my strongest raw back when I was doing heavy overhead kettlebell work. Louie always says that when George Halbert and Kenny Patterson held the WR's they used to do a lot of overhead work along with tons of dumbbell presses and floor presses.
    I haven't done overhead rack lockouts in forever!! I think we need to reinstitute them next week.

    We kinda got out of doing them long time back because it was hard to get the pins set at a height that was beneficial for everyone (when you train in a group). For instance, a height for me (say about forehead or slightly higher) level is really low for Matt, but I'm sure we could figure something out. We do have a few racks after all......


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  15. #14
    Moderator Brian Hopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by douglasoh5 View Post
    I noticed when I added db ohp into my training My raw benching felt stronger and more stable.
    I have noticed the same thing when I was doing some sort of OHP. I have been slacking on them but hopefully i'll start doing them again.
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  16. #15
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    Ya I havnt kept up on them as much as I should. I really dont like doing them. I have really weak shoulders, but they help so I got to do them

  17. #16
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    Travis,
    I do shoulders after DE work for sets of 10... If go heavier seems like my ME work suffers. I thought "Louie" mostly advocates side & rear lateral's for shoulder work?

    IDK, but after I backed off the hvy. presses my bench went up... I know this is contrary to what most you guys are saying but I feel I didnt recovery enough between DE and ME work.
    Albeit, this has a lot to do w/ rest and nutrition...

    Esp. when you factor in hvy. Sqauts every week which no one has mentioned!!! Sqauts have to be considered since they can be tough on your shoulders as well.
    just my .02 RC

  18. #17
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robchris View Post
    Travis,
    I do shoulders after DE work for sets of 10... If go heavier seems like my ME work suffers. I thought "Louie" mostly advocates side & rear lateral's for shoulder work?

    IDK, but after I backed off the hvy. presses my bench went up... I know this is contrary to what most you guys are saying but I feel I didnt recovery enough between DE and ME work.
    Albeit, this has a lot to do w/ rest and nutrition...

    Esp. when you factor in hvy. Sqauts every week which no one has mentioned!!! Sqauts have to be considered since they can be tough on your shoulders as well.
    just my .02 RC
    When we do OHP work it's done on ME day, not DE day.

    But yes, the majority of our shoulder work is rear delt work


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  19. #18
    Senior Member kingkong51's Avatar
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    You must realize that raw benching is mostly front delts and rear delts for stabilization but I agree with Travis on Squats and Military presses will increase over all shoulder strength.
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