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Thread: Record squat set by olympic lifter?

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    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Record squat set by olympic lifter?

    If a seasoned olympic lifter were to try squatting according to PLing rules what would the outcome be? Would they set records?

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    Who is John Galt? CrazyK's Avatar
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    I highly doubt it. Fred Hatfield exhibited this when he had a "squat off" with a russian gold meldalist heavyweight lifter and played with his squat weights.

    However they certainly could compete and place well.
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    Senior Member tomv's Avatar
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    Unequipped I think the OLY lifter would give them a fairly decent run for their money. I've seen a 94kg bloke (about 210lbs) DEEP squatting 240kg (528lbs) in a belt. Admittedly it was his PR but... that's still pretty dang good.
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    No way in hell an Olympic lifter could keep up with a Powerlifter. They are 2 completely different techniques. And, the overall body strength of a OL doesn't compare with that of a PLer. No offense, but OL don't need to be that strong. It's a very technical sport. Technique wins out over brute strength in OL.

    Apples and Oranges

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    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    No way in hell an Olympic lifter could keep up with a Powerlifter. They are 2 completely different techniques. And, the overall body strength of a OL doesn't compare with that of a PLer. No offense, but OL don't need to be that strong. It's a very technical sport. Technique wins out over brute strength in OL.

    Apples and Oranges
    It's a different kind of strength for sure but you can't say they aren't strong. They need explosive strength whereas a power just needs to be ****ing strong.

    I still agree though... I don't think the top oly lifters would do that well against the top powerlifters... The same could be said the other way though. I KNOW that the top powerlifters would do horrible against the top weightlifters in an oly lifting competition.
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    Senior Member JHarris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    No way in hell an Olympic lifter could keep up with a Powerlifter. They are 2 completely different techniques. And, the overall body strength of a OL doesn't compare with that of a PLer. No offense, but OL don't need to be that strong. It's a very technical sport. Technique wins out over brute strength in OL.

    Apples and Oranges
    Nope. Technique wins out at lower levels over brute strength, but at the top levels, strength and speed are just as important, if not moreso than technique. Most international class olympic lifters have flawless technique.

    I agree its apples to oranges in that the lifts are totally different. If you take all the equipment off a powerlifter and make them squat all the way down, I doubt they'd be able to compete with a similar weighted Olympic lifter. And no Olympic lifter will be able to compete with a serious powerlifter in a deadlift or bench because they haven't trained the proper form/muscle recruitment.

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    HomeYield WillKuenzel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHarris View Post
    Nope. Technique wins out at lower levels over brute strength, but at the top levels, strength and speed are just as important, if not moreso than technique. Most international class olympic lifters have flawless technique.
    They wouldn't be at the international level if they didn't have that form, so form, regardless of strength and speed (brute strength), in that sport is paramount.

    Just to argue semantics.
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    JHarris,
    My friend there are MANY powerifters who squat deep in and out of equiptment. Check out some of the single ply lifters depth and strength it could shock you... I personally have hit 600 raw no belt on the floor at 250lbs... I think a top Level Oly lifter may be able to hang in a raw to raw contest but not win out... But I would say that 90% of powerlifters would not be able to hang with an Oly lifter in Oly lifting for the mere fact of technique and flexibilty just cant exist when you bench and have the upper body mass in the shoulders tris and pecs.. So as others have posted apples to oranges would be correct..

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHarris View Post
    Nope. Technique wins out at lower levels over brute strength, but at the top levels, strength and speed are just as important, if not moreso than technique. Most international class olympic lifters have flawless technique.

    I agree its apples to oranges in that the lifts are totally different. If you take all the equipment off a powerlifter and make them squat all the way down, I doubt they'd be able to compete with a similar weighted Olympic lifter. And no Olympic lifter will be able to compete with a serious powerlifter in a deadlift or bench because they haven't trained the proper form/muscle recruitment.
    This is kinda like arguing shirt v. raw lifting. OL will think they're stronger and PL will think they're stronger. Basically, it's a pissing contest.

    IMO, a PL would win no matter what. Depth, gear, no gear, blah, blah, blah. The sport of powerlifting requires more overall body strength than Olympic lifting. However, since technique and execution are radically different, it's like having a basketball team play a football team in lacrosse. It can't be compared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    No offense, but OL don't need to be that strong.
    That sentence is a bunch of crap. How many PLers could every OHP 213 kg/486.6 lbs over there head at 83 kg/182.6 lbs. None of that lay on your back, wide a** grip press the bar 2 1/2 inches above your chest and call it a lift crap. Dimas doesn't split jerk he push jerks.

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    Last edited by CosmicForce; 01-18-2008 at 09:47 AM. Reason: miscalculated conversion of kg to lbs

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    Senior Member JHarris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RhodeHouse View Post
    This is kinda like arguing shirt v. raw lifting. OL will think they're stronger and PL will think they're stronger. Basically, it's a pissing contest.
    Yeah, I agree. I personally think that the person who trains the movement will win, period. That's why I mentioned full depth, unequipped squatting since Olympic lifters train that multiple times a week.

    IMO, a PL would win no matter what. Depth, gear, no gear, blah, blah, blah. The sport of powerlifting requires more overall body strength than Olympic lifting. However, since technique and execution are radically different, it's like having a basketball team play a football team in lacrosse. It can't be compared.
    You make a good point with that last line. There's no doubt that powerlifters focus only on strength while Olympic lifters have to focus on other things too, so in that sense I have to say that powerlifting is designed to produced the best pure-strength athletes. However, since most of the rest of the world's top talent in strength sports go into Olympic lifting, I think its a toss up today on which sport has the strongest.

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    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    When you are talking about olympic caliber SHW lifters like Pyrros Dimas or Shane Hamman...these are guys who essentially OVERHEAD squat 450-500 lbs. I know Hamman has back squatted RAW over 900 lbs. That is serious strength, and these are guys who don't use or practice in any kind of supportive gear.

    I think it would be interesting to see how top level PLers and Oly lifters would fair in such a competition. Suffice it to say that I think the Oly guys woiuld do better at PLing than the other way around.
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    Who me? Chubrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post

    I think it would be interesting to see how top level PLers and Oly lifters would fair in such a competition. Suffice it to say that I think the Oly guys woiuld do better at PLing than the other way around.
    I'm not so sure about that G. Like JHarris commented, Oly lifters don't really train the bench or heavy pull very often at all. While they might make things interesting to start the meet off, I'd imagine things would quickly go downhill.

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    Senior Member BFGUITAR's Avatar
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    Maybe I should be clearer.

    If we were to define parallel as the goal, PLers usually train to hit parallel with as much weight as they can whule oly lifters seem to go ATF with as much weight as they can. If the oly lifter aimed for parallel, how much more could they lift?

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    Senior Member deeder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    Maybe I should be clearer.

    If we were to define parallel as the goal, PLers usually train to hit parallel with as much weight as they can whule oly lifters seem to go ATF with as much weight as they can. If the oly lifter aimed for parallel, how much more could they lift?
    My guess is less, at first... The olympic squat is VERY different from a powerlifting squat.
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    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    IMO, any guy that can hold almost 500 pounds above his head can definitely squat ass loads. Give them time to train with gear and I really think they could do pretty well in a power lifting comp.
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    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubrock View Post
    I'm not so sure about that G. Like JHarris commented, Oly lifters don't really train the bench or heavy pull very often at all. While they might make things interesting to start the meet off, I'd imagine things would quickly go downhill.
    I don't think the OLOers would fair well on bench, necessarily, but I think he'd hold his own on the DL as well as the squat. I knew a guy who was a pure OL'er and I got him to try for a DL max once. He was about 205 lbs, same as me, and his very first time ever going for max he did 545 lbs. His speed off the floor was insane, too. If he'd worked on lockout strength he could have done a lot more pretty quickly.

    A lot of those OL'er guys I've seen are similar, too. Lots of power off the floor (on squat and DL) and just lacking the hip strength for really heavy lockouts, since they don't really work the partial ROM much. A little work on that and they would have ridiculous strength.
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    GGGrrrrrrr minotaur70's Avatar
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    like Rhodes said- this is basically a pissing competition. You are basically saying how many PLers could equal the world record in an oly lift?
    To which the PL will reply, how many oly lifters would break a world PL record?
    The question was about squatting- and there are some damn good raw PL squatters- obviously.

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicForce View Post
    That sentence is a bunch of crap. How many PLers could every OHP 213 kg/486.6 lbs over there head at 83 kg/182.6 lbs. None of that lay on your back, wide a** grip press the bar 2 1/2 inches above your chest and call it a lift crap. Dimas doesn't split jerk he push jerks.

    Pyrros Dimas 213kg WR C&J
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    Senior Member JHarris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    I don't think the OLOers would fair well on bench, necessarily, but I think he'd hold his own on the DL as well as the squat. I knew a guy who was a pure OL'er and I got him to try for a DL max once. He was about 205 lbs, same as me, and his very first time ever going for max he did 545 lbs. His speed off the floor was insane, too. If he'd worked on lockout strength he could have done a lot more pretty quickly.

    A lot of those OL'er guys I've seen are similar, too. Lots of power off the floor (on squat and DL) and just lacking the hip strength for really heavy lockouts, since they don't really work the partial ROM much. A little work on that and they would have ridiculous strength.
    This really surprises me. I am the exact opposite way around; anything I can get off the floor, I can easily stand up with, but its the first 3 inches or so on heavy reps that give me issues. A number of my training partners have the same problem.

    Then again, I rarely do true deadlifts, though I do a lot of RDLs and obviously clean/snatch pulls. I imagine its a form issue? I mean, even when doing deadlifts I have a tendency to stay over the bar and try to keep my back angle constant until the bar is past my knees.

    Was your friend deadlifting like an olympic lifter, or did he have some pointers? I'm just really surprised since the triple extension and full hip involvement is so important in olympic lifting, where strength off the floor is not quite as important.

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    Senior Member Big_Byrd52's Avatar
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    i think an oly lifter would fair very well in the squat right off the bat in a raw test of strength. with some training for parallel and limit strength in the squat, they would be right there, no doubt. Hell pyros dimas, a 85 or 90kg lifter has squatted over 6 ATG.

    the pull would take some time because they would have to learn to strain. but even just starting they would pull very well compared to state level Plers.


    if u squat 2-3 times a week for years, ur freakin squat and DL are gonna be off the chain. PERIOD.

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    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGUITAR View Post
    Maybe I should be clearer.

    If we were to define parallel as the goal, PLers usually train to hit parallel with as much weight as they can whule oly lifters seem to go ATF with as much weight as they can. If the oly lifter aimed for parallel, how much more could they lift?
    Not much more - you'd be surprised. OLers train to hit their numbers from rock bottom. Unless they trained for PL squats (parallel) for a while, their squat numbers might actually be be about the same or even worse, believe it or not.

    OLers are some of the strongest and most powerful athletes in the world no doubt, but a world class PLer would, generally speaking, squat the pants off a world class OLer.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Olympic lifters practice the back squat quite a bit in most cases. The tend to be VERY strong in the lift. I have seen Hossain Reza Zedah (sp?) front squat over 600 lbs like it was NOTHING.

    Rhode, you are dead wrong about their strength in the squat. The best are on par with the best powerlifters in a raw squat from what I have seen.

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    Banned MPB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    Olympic lifters practice the back squat quite a bit in most cases. The tend to be VERY strong in the lift. I have seen Hossain Reza Zedah (sp?) front squat over 600 lbs like it was NOTHING.

    Rhode, you are dead wrong about their strength in the squat. The best are on par with the best powerlifters in a raw squat from what I have seen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicForce View Post
    That sentence is a bunch of crap. How many PLers could every OHP 213 kg/486.6 lbs over there head at 83 kg/182.6 lbs. None of that lay on your back, wide a** grip press the bar 2 1/2 inches above your chest and call it a lift crap. Dimas doesn't split jerk he push jerks.

    Pyrros Dimas 213kg WR C&J
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    Not impressed. Sorry. Next?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    When you are talking about olympic caliber SHW lifters like Pyrros Dimas or Shane Hamman...these are guys who essentially OVERHEAD squat 450-500 lbs. I know Hamman has back squatted RAW over 900 lbs. That is serious strength, and these are guys who don't use or practice in any kind of supportive gear.

    I think it would be interesting to see how top level PLers and Oly lifters would fair in such a competition. Suffice it to say that I think the Oly guys woiuld do better at PLing than the other way around.
    First, I want to see Hammond squat 900 raw. Until there's video, NOPE. And, Hammond got his start in powerlifting.

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