The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
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The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
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  1. #1
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    Squats bad for you knees

    Over the last year of so, I've heard from a number of females, some quite experienced ones that they don't do squats or they limit ROM or they reduced weight due to bad knees.

    I thought squats were good for your knees, so I'm don't understand where they are coming from.

    What's your view on this?

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  3. #2
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    From what I have seen...

    alot of women with wider hips tend to cave in alot wih squats, the female weightlifters all do a lot of glute work and lunges and strengthening the abductors.

    Knee pain for femles prob has more to do with the caving in then the movement itself.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  4. #3
    Senior Member tomv's Avatar
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    Well partial squats are firstly worse for your knees. I can't remember why but I do remember reading such a comment in Starting Strength. Something to do with the disproportionate amount of pull place on the knee from the quad against the hamstring.

    Women also have *generally* what is known as a greater "Q Angle" (I have no real idea why it is called this). This is the relationship between the width of the hips in comparison to the knees. Women have broader hips generally with more narrow knees in comparison to men. This can but more strain on the knee joint.
    Something else may simply be the fact that they have bad form though I can't say this for certain as I don't know the ladies...
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  5. #4
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    They are speaking from a position of ignorance.

    There are issues with women and form and squatting, but if they get their form right, there's usually no real issue.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
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  6. #5
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    Thanks guys,

    Any recommendations on articles on the pros and cons of different types of squats?

  7. #6
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    atf squats i would say put the least amount of pressure on the knees.

  8. #7
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    I can't post links but go to exrx (dot) net and look for "squat analysis" it has a lot of good info about squats.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    If you have knee issues to begin with, you have to be cautious, but yes, done properly, squats should strengthen the knee.

    "Squats don't hurt your knees. The way YOU squat hurts your knees." - Dan John
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
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  10. #9
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MihalikPJ View Post
    I can't post links but go to exrx (dot) net and look for "squat analysis" it has a lot of good info about squats.
    This page: http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/Squats.html

  11. #10
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    I think there's some info at stumptuous.com
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  12. #11
    Iron4Life
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    Stumptuous is great...
    but don't forget Sensei's great vids: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...3D688F10C4DE1F
    And even the Dan John vid: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81301858251744

    Gee, I have these in my sig too..

  13. #12
    Breaker of Skulls Guido's Avatar
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  14. #13
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    I'd forgotten about stumptuous, that's excellent material for discussing with females, most of material out there is masculine.

    Haven't seen it in a while, but Sensi's video has a good preamble about learning to squat from the bottom upwards. Useful material.

    Two of the females in question are gym instructors who, amongst other things instruct a high rep low weight routine designed by Les Mills. Les Mills put a restriction on squat depth. http://www.lesmills.com/global/en/me...the-moves.aspx Click on squats.

    I'll check out the Dan Wolf video tonight, can't watch video's at work, some sort of firewall or proxy problem I haven't figured out.

  15. #14
    As I Am Paul Stagg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesbytes View Post
    about learning to squat from the bottom upwards. Useful material.

    Two of the females in question are gym instructors who, amongst other things instruct a high rep low weight routine designed by Les Mills. Les Mills put a restriction on squat depth. http://www.lesmills.com/global/en/me...the-moves.aspx Click on squats.
    I think I'd find a better resource than that. Wow.
    Squats work better than supplements.
    "You know, if I thought like that, I'd never put more than one plate on the bar for anything, I'd never use bands or chains, I'd never squat to parallel or below, and I'd never let out the slightest grunt when I lift. At some point in your lifting career (assuming you're planning on getting reasonably strong and big), you're going to have to accept that most people think you are some kind of freak." -Sensei
    "You're wrong, and I have a completely irrelevant pubmed abstract that may or may not say so." - Belial
    I has a blog.
    I has a facebook.

  16. #15
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Stagg View Post
    I think I'd find a better resource than that. Wow.

    A little piece of me just died.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  17. #16
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Stagg View Post
    I think I'd find a better resource than that. Wow.
    This is a Les Mills demo of the program that they instruct. My point being that the program that they train requires them to squat no more than parallel. In the demo vid, its a bit above parallel.

    Adding to that, the program performs about 80 squats of various types within 5 minutes, we may describe that as a 25kg/55lbs*80*1 set. The number of times an instructor conducts a class varies between 1 and about 20 per week, but most are doing around 5 - 7 classes.

    I've been thinking that as they get better at the Les Mills squats and bump the weight up, the sheer number of that type of squats during a week may be putting too much strain on their knees. Just a thought and I can't substantiate it. Views on this?

  18. #17
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesbytes View Post
    This is a Les Mills demo of the program that they instruct. My point being that the program that they train requires them to squat no more than parallel. In the demo vid, its a bit above parallel.

    Adding to that, the program performs about 80 squats of various types within 5 minutes, we may describe that as a 25kg/55lbs*80*1 set. The number of times an instructor conducts a class varies between 1 and about 20 per week, but most are doing around 5 - 7 classes.

    I've been thinking that as they get better at the Les Mills squats and bump the weight up, the sheer number of that type of squats during a week may be putting too much strain on their knees. Just a thought and I can't substantiate it. Views on this?

    Humans should squat deep. THE END.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  19. #18
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy View Post
    Humans should squat deep. THE END.
    But where are the facts that back up the full squat argument?

  20. #19
    Senior Member Sensei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesbytes View Post
    This is a Les Mills demo of the program that they instruct. My point being that the program that they train requires them to squat no more than parallel. In the demo vid, its a bit above parallel.

    Adding to that, the program performs about 80 squats of various types within 5 minutes, we may describe that as a 25kg/55lbs*80*1 set. The number of times an instructor conducts a class varies between 1 and about 20 per week, but most are doing around 5 - 7 classes.

    I've been thinking that as they get better at the Les Mills squats and bump the weight up, the sheer number of that type of squats during a week may be putting too much strain on their knees. Just a thought and I can't substantiate it. Views on this?
    That video is more than "a bit above parallel". Those are, at best, quarter squats.

    I have absolutely no knee issues when back squatting - none. Never. Part of that is form and part of that is intelligent planning.

    My knees hurt just watching that trainer and the girl demonstrate. For them, squats are a knee extension exercise and it shows. They may say it's a posterior chain exercise, but the way they squat speaks volumes.

    Watch Squat Rx #3 and #4. Not that they would convince anyone who already has their mind made up, but I think they are pretty well done.
    A child does not learn to squat from the top down. In other words, he does not suddenly make a conscious decision one day to squat. Actually, he is squatting one day and make the conscious decision to stand. Squatting precedes standing in the developmental sequence. This is the way a child's brain learns to use the body as the child develops movement patterns. Therefore, a child is probably crawling, rocks back into a squatting position with the back completely relaxed and the hips completely flexed, and stands when he has enough hip strength. This approach makes a lot of sense and can be applied to relearning the deep squat movement if it is lost. -Gray Cook
    Lifting Clips: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=johnnymnemonic2
    Blog: http://squatrx.blogspot.com/

  21. #20
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    That video is more than "a bit above parallel". Those are, at best, quarter squats.

    I have absolutely no knee issues when back squatting - none. Never. Part of that is form and part of that is intelligent planning.

    My knees hurt just watching that trainer and the girl demonstrate. For them, squats are a knee extension exercise and it shows. They may say it's a posterior chain exercise, but the way they squat speaks volumes.

    Watch Squat Rx #3 and #4. Not that they would convince anyone who already has their mind made up, but I think they are pretty well done.
    Yeh, the video doesn't even meet their own specifications...

  22. #21
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    Came upon 1 1/4 squats, haven't seen these ones before
    Video

  23. #22
    THUNDER THIGHS! Fuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikesbytes View Post
    Came upon 1 1/4 squats, haven't seen these ones before
    Video
    Yes, with girls the problem is compounded by heeled shoes. She is def an Oly lifter from that squat and the shoes.
    Being a strong teenager means nothing.

    My wrists hurt, but some people don't have wrists to be sore. My knees have tendinitis, but some people don't have legs to get tendinitis in. I seem to be going backwards with training, yet some people can't even walk let alone lift 400 pounds on a daily basis.

    Dust out the vagina, and keep on lifting.

  24. #23
    Senior Member brihead301's Avatar
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    Lol, ya that chick did those 40 lb. squats with pretty bad form.

  25. #24
    student of the game Runty's Avatar
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    I liked her 1 shoulder strap amazon spandex. That video was.... very informative?
    Last edited by Runty; 02-08-2008 at 04:22 PM.
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  26. #25
    Cross trainer & DL addict mikesbytes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runty View Post
    I liked her 1 shoulder strap amazon spandex. That video was.... very informative?
    Yes watching females squat can be rather informative.

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