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Thread: RESULTS results thread

  1. #501
    Wannabebig New Member HahnB's Avatar
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    I still have a problem looking at this from a big picture perspective. I could care less about the studies, really. If there was a product, or combination of products that was 50% (even 25%) as effective as steroids, wouldn't every single athlete in the entire world be using it? I'm going to agree with a few others, I would be open to trying a sugar free product to see if it produced strength gains. If it did, I would retract my original conclusion and probably use the product.
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  2. #502
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    I would definitely buy a dextrose-free version for when I run UD2 in a few weeks as well. I know it's not gonna happen, or at least that soon, but just wanted to chime in. I honestly think there would be a decent demand for a sugar free version.
    Last edited by Invain; 03-31-2008 at 09:48 PM.
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  3. #503
    Westside Bencher Travis Bell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HahnB View Post
    I still have a problem looking at this from a big picture perspective. I could care less about the studies, really. If there was a product, or combination of products that was 50% (even 25%) as effective as steroids, wouldn't every single athlete in the entire world be using it? I'm going to agree with a few others, I would be open to trying a sugar free product to see if it produced strength gains. If it did, I would retract my original conclusion and probably use the product.

    what? Hahn, you mean you don't like RESULTS? man I missed that one


    haha I'm just bustin your teeth

  4. #504
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    See that's just it. As Chris said, it only adds a little bit to the effectiveness of the product. Since so many of us can't tolerate that much sugar, I can't see why AtLarge doesn't go ahead and formulate a sugar-free version.

  5. #505
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    I would definitely buy a dextrose-free version for when I run UD2 in a few weeks as well. I know it's not gonna happen, or at least that soon, but just wanted to chime in. I honestly think there would be a decent demand for a sugar free version.
    I hate to say it, but anything that aids in the phosphoryaltion of ADP to ATP would not coincide with the actual goal of UD2 on the first 4 days.

    The goal is to deplete glycogen to the largest degree possible.

    Anything that aids in the production of ATP and delays anaerobic glyoclysis and the formation of lactate, would not be of benefit.

    This is why creatine is not to be used until after the Thursday tension workout. Beta-alanine would fall into this category as well.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 03-31-2008 at 10:33 PM.

  6. #506
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Hmm damn. I haven't read the book in a while, lol.
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  7. #507
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    Hmm damn. I haven't read the book in a while, lol.
    Yeah, I tend to learn something new each time I read it.

    Although, I picked up on that from the first time

  8. #508
    LittleJake JSully's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    I hate to say it, but anything that aids in the phosphoryaltion of ADP to ATP would not coincide with the actual goal of UD2 on the first 4 days.

    The goal is to deplete glycogen to the largest degree possible.

    Anything that aids in the production of ATP and delays anaerobic glyoclysis and the formation of lactate, would not be of benefit.

    This is why creatine is not to be used until after the Thursday tension workout. Beta-alanine would fall into this category as well.
    well.. creatine just got kicked from my low carb days.. lol
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  9. #509
    Senior Member Invain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    Yeah, I tend to learn something new each time I read it.

    Although, I picked up on that from the first time
    Well, you also have a degree in some form of nutrition/biology if I remember correctly.

    To be honest I do remember hearing about using creatine with the UD. Kinda forgot it was in Results.
    Last edited by Invain; 03-31-2008 at 11:11 PM.
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  10. #510
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Invain View Post
    Well, you also have a degree in some form of nutrition/biology if I remember correctly.

    To be honest I do remember hearing about using creatine with the UD. Kinda forgot it was in Results.
    Just givin' ya ****.


    As far as school, I am qualified to speak on glucose, fructose, etc. So, I will just leave it at that

  11. #511
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleJake View Post
    well.. creatine just got kicked from my low carb days.. lol
    It could be argued that it might not make much of a difference.

    But, if that were the case, there would be no point at all in supplementing with it in the first place.

  12. #512
    1000 or bust motoko013's Avatar
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    would taking caffeine along with results be of benefit? Or would it counteract the creatine?

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  13. #513
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoko013 View Post
    would taking caffeine along with results be of benefit? Or would it counteract the creatine?
    You can take caffeine with it. I do.


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  14. #514
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    haha thats because Built just likes to keep asking questions for the sake of being difficult.
    That's right Travis. That's what I do. I have two degrees in being difficult. Hell, I even behave this way professionally. It's called "the scientific method".
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bell View Post
    haha thats because Built just likes to keep asking questions for the sake of being difficult

    in response to your question, (Chris would be able to answer this better since he tested it) since it would make the uptake of creatine less effective and slower, I doubt it was tested without the dextrose.
    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    No.

    First, what makes you think your glycogen stores are not full?

    You do have the general idea, but I don't think your example of yourself is a good one at all.

    In addition, fast acting carbs really won't do much of anything in terms of a pre-workout boost for nearly ANY normally fed resistance trained individual.

    Carbs can certainly be of benefit PWO, but that is not the function of the carbs in RESULTS.

    The nutshell is that the carbs in RESULTS have very little, if any, direct effect on size and strength. It is the creatine, HMB, and beta alanine that do the trick with the carbs aiding the shuttling of the creatine and possibly the BA to the musculature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Chris, let me see if any of this is clear to me.

    Preworkout glucose works by sparing glycogen, thus keeping the workout intensity going longer (but not by increasing individual lifts), which means more TUT, more microtrauma, more load being lifted if the reps you can crank out are increased - even if only slightly. It also means better and faster recovery because insulin blunts cortisol and you're all sugared up from the get-go, rather than trying to put out a fire at the end of the workout. Provided you don't do a long, high-volume workout, you'll have glucose and insulin in the right time and in the right place to initiate muscle repair right away.

    That's how I've always understood it.

    Do you agree?
    Quote Originally Posted by cphafner View Post
    I keep having these bad side effects...my strength and weight keep going up. What should I do?
    Quote Originally Posted by BBB View Post
    Oh, I see. Now I think I get what you're saying. Lemme see if I have this straight. Us regular body building types (that is, not strictly strength athletes), who's glycogen levels aren't constantly maxed out, and who actually DO perform some high volume training - we'd benefit from the pre-workout dextrose. Meaning that consuming the dextrose pre-workout might give us the ability to eek out a few more reps or sets - even though it wouldn't make us stronger per se.

    Do I have this right? See, generally I don't consume more than 160 g of carbs daily - so, obviously my glycogen stores aren't maxed out (or even close) all the time. So, someone like me might benefit from the pre-workout dextrose. Is this right? Fast carbs, like dextrose, help [i]some[i] types of resistance trained athletes - just not strength athletes. Even so, taking dextrose pre-workout would help strength athletes do more sets or reps, it just wouldn't help them move more weight. Is this what you are saying?

    Also, if I understand this right, the dextrose would give me the added benefit of better post-workout recovery (which is supported by the research). And if I follow that through to its logical conclusion, enhanced recovery would make me stronger for my next work out. The next time I hit the gym, I'd be stronger and be able to move more weight. Cool!

    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Chris, let me see if any of this is clear to me.

    Preworkout glucose works by sparing glycogen, thus keeping the workout intensity going longer (but not by increasing individual lifts), which means more TUT, more microtrauma, more load being lifted if the reps you can crank out are increased - even if only slightly. It also means better and faster recovery because insulin blunts cortisol and you're all sugared up from the get-go, rather than trying to put out a fire at the end of the workout. Provided you don't do a long, high-volume workout, you'll have glucose and insulin in the right time and in the right place to initiate muscle repair right away.

    That's how I've always understood it.

    Do you agree?
    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    ...fast acting carbs really won't do much of anything in terms of a pre-workout boost for nearly ANY normally fed resistance trained individual.

    Carbs can certainly be of benefit PWO, but that is not the function of the carbs in RESULTS.

    The nutshell is that the carbs in RESULTS have very little, if any, direct effect on size and strength. It is the creatine, HMB, and beta alanine that do the trick with the carbs aiding the shuttling of the creatine and possibly the BA to the musculature.
    Okay, now this is an interesting post.

    Preworkout carbs may not provide a boost defined in terms of "your bench will immediately go up", but they DO let you keep your training intensity going a little longer because they spare muscle glycogen. See, glucose is the food on your table - glycogen is the food in your fridge. Glucose is the stuff your muscles use, not glycogen, not directly. Glycogen has to break down first. Glucose does not.

    Perhaps this semantic is behind some of the confusion in this thread.

    The other benefit that comes from pre-workout carbs has, of course, been well documented: Given the choice of "before vs after", it is flat out more effective for the post-workout repair period to have the carbohydrate already in your system when the last weight hits the floor, than it is to knock back a shake when you're all done. That's why Berardi, Tate and others suggest sipping a shake before and or during your workout.

    Given this, the dextrose in Results! is no different than any other dextrose: when consumed shortly before a workout, the insulin and glucose ensure the right thing at the right time to aid in repair and recovery after a workout, thus making it a clearly ergogenic aid in this light.

    Now, nobody has said this is a bad thing! I personally have not suggested that it is the ONLY substance that is having an ergogenic effect. But to deny this effect is rather ludicrous if you consider that the dextrose consumed pre-workout on its own will do this.

    Now, the dextrose consumed many hours before, or the day before, won't have this effect because it and its ensuing insulin response will have dissipated before the post workout window - although I suppose it may still contribute to glycogen stores. But that's not what we've been talking about (although 300 calories IS still 300 calories!)

    Thing is, the other actives - creatine and HMB - neither of these improves your bench right away either. Does this mean they aren't ergogenic aids either? Because if this is the only reason you say this, by extension, shooting a gram of test into your ass every week isn't an ergogenic aid either: after all, it doesn't work right away.


    Quote Originally Posted by cphafner View Post
    I keep having these bad side effects...my strength and weight keep going up. What should I do?
    "It's not science - it's RESULTS!"

    Right cp?

  15. #515
    Senior Member cphafner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoko013 View Post
    would taking caffeine along with results be of benefit? Or would it counteract the creatine?
    I take it with caffeine. I take the results an hour before my workout. I take the caffeine 30 mins before.
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  16. #516
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Built, for you to come to conclusion you have about carbs in a pre-workout situation is not very scientific at all (relative to your application of your conclusion). You are not considering the real life variables that exist in the vast majority of trainees.

    The majority of those who are resistance trained are not in any sort of a caloric deficit. They are not carb starved nor do they have low intramuscular glycogen stores. They have probably also consumed a meal which contains a fair amount of fat within the last several hours of training meaning that their blood glucose levels are very likely reasonably high (they are still digesting said meal). Thus pre-workout carbs will not do anything for their training.

    That is the reality. What you and a few others are focusing on are nuance circumstances that simply don't exist for most. That is what I have been trying to get through to you guys all along.

    The ingredients in RESULTS that have an anabolic effect are creatine, HMB, and beta alanine. The combination of all 3 provides significantly greater benefits than any one of them alone will provide.

    For what seems like the millionth time, all you need do is simply try the product and judge its efficacy for yourself. Chances are quite excellent you will come to the same conclusion of the vast majority of those who have tried it and decide it is one of the best ergogenic supplements on the market.


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  17. #517
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    They have probably also consumed a meal which contains a fair amount of fat within the last several hours of training meaning that their blood glucose levels are very likely reasonably high (they are still digesting said meal).
    Slowing down absorption of glucose through additional fat or protein intake would not mean that blood glucose remains high.



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    The surprising part of this business is that we have a very limited amount of circulating glucose in spite of a very rapid and extensive use of this sugar as anenergy source. Look at the table below. The highlighted area shows how long our blood and extracellular glucose can support differing activity levels.

    Our total reserve of blood glucose is around 20 grams. Twenty grams of glucose give enough energy for about 40 minutes with little or no activity! If you just sit and relax you could use all of your glucose in less than one hour! If you walk, glucose could disappear in around 15 minutes and moderate work (that which can be maintained for some few hours) might exhaust your sugar reserves in about 4 minutes.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 04-01-2008 at 10:36 PM.

  18. #518
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Chris, I'm sorry you just don't get it. It's sad to think you've been missing out on the ergogenic benefit of before and during-workout glucose, but at least now that you're using Results, you're getting this advantage.

    Even though you don't realize it.

  19. #519
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post

    The majority of those who are resistance trained are not in any sort of a caloric deficit. They are not carb starved nor do they have low intramuscular glycogen stores.
    This is quite a blanket statement, and depends on the individual's goals

    Cutting fat requires a caloric deficit.

    Additonally, one could bulk but maintain relatively low muscle glycogen.

    For example, setting up a UD2 gain diet (for myself) comes out to 250g carbs, 400g protein, and 100+ grams of fat.

    My muscles max out around 1800 grams of glycogen (carbs)

    So, if I take this 250g/day, 100 grams goes to the liver.

    That leaves my muscles with 150 grams.

    This is 1650 grams carb/glycogen below what I am capable of storing, which would be considered low.

    This does not take into account that musle glycogen is not only utilized during resistance training, strength training, endurance training, or whatever kind of training.

    Even if one does not exercise, muscle glycogen does not stay there forever.

    This really is basic biology with regards to cellular respiration.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 04-01-2008 at 10:40 PM.

  20. #520
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    The ingredients in RESULTS that have an anabolic effect are creatine, HMB, and beta alanine. The combination of all 3 provides significantly greater benefits than any one of them alone will provide.

    For what seems like the millionth time, all you need do is simply try the product and judge its efficacy for yourself. Chances are quite excellent you will come to the same conclusion of the vast majority of those who have tried it and decide it is one of the best ergogenic supplements on the market.
    Chris, I really don't think that anyone is arguing against those other ingredients (which the exception of HMB, perhaps) or that the product does something.

    I know I'm not.


    The focus as of late really seems to be on the carbohydrate/glycogen issue.

    Built's comments above actually are scientific because this is basic biochemsistry that just about every medically-related undergraduate learns and has been established for years and it does apply real-world as she, I, or anyone else has discussed.
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 04-01-2008 at 11:08 PM.

  21. #521
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Schaedle View Post
    This is quite a blanket statement, and depends on the individual's goals

    Cutting fat requires a caloric deficit.

    Additonally, one could bulk but maintain relatively low muscle glycogen.

    For example, setting up a UD2 gain diet (for myself) comes out to 250g carbs, 400g protein, and 100+ grams of fat.

    My muscles max out around 1800 grams of glycogen (carbs)

    So, if I take this 250g/day, 100 grams goes to the liver.

    That leaves my muscles with 150 grams.

    This is 1650 grams carb/glycogen below what I am capable of storing, which would be considered low.

    This does not take into account that musle glycogen is not only utilized during resistance training, strength training, endurance training, or whatever kind of training.

    Even if one does not exercise, muscle glycogen does not stay there forever.

    This really is basic biology with regards to cellular respiration.
    Slim, you are using very specific numbers relative to what yourself and you should know better. You have no idea what you as an individual are capable of storing at any given time. There are so many variables as to make such statements pure folly.


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  22. #522
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Chris, I'm sorry you just don't get it. It's sad to think you've been missing out on the ergogenic benefit of before and during-workout glucose, but at least now that you're using Results, you're getting this advantage.

    Even though you don't realize it.
    We can agree to disagree. I think the truth is quite the opposite. I think I get it much better than do you.

    In any event, your input is appreciated.

    Where we can agree is that I am experiencing the wonderful benefits of RESULTS each time I go to the gym!


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  23. #523
    Banned Slim Schaedle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    You have no idea what you as an individual are capable of storing at any given time. There are so many variables as to make such statements pure folly.
    That would make a large percentage of Lyle's books incorrect then.

    As well as any other article, study, book, or piece of literature that states muscle and liver glycogen storage capacity.

    As well as all my experience carb loading and fine-tuning, calculating, and tracking dietary manipulations.


    Are all of these wrong?


    Even if my numbers were off (which they aren't...besides, everything related to "calories" is estimation....even when they calculate the calories in a given food), 250g/day hardly means my muscle glycogen is high. And taking into consideration my weight, it would mean that is a very low amount.


    Am I missing something?

    Does the liver and muscles change how much they store on a particular day?

    What variables change liver and muscle storage capacity?
    Last edited by Slim Schaedle; 04-01-2008 at 11:58 PM.

  24. #524
    Just watch me ... Built's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris mason View Post
    We can agree to disagree. I think the truth is quite the opposite. I think I get it much better than do you.

    In any event, your input is appreciated.

    Where we can agree is that I am experiencing the wonderful benefits of RESULTS each time I go to the gym!
    Well, there is a VERY simple way to find out, at least for yourself:

    Take a holiday from Results! with sugar, then next time you try it, do everything the same as you are now but with 80g less carb than you're currently consuming - ie with a sugar-free version.

    Many of us would have been far more interested in this than in the one with half a cup of sugar in a single dose.

    By the way, Chris - you used this in a caloric deficit didn't you? While you were dropping 20 lbs of fat in a month?

  25. #525
    Administrator chris mason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    Well, there is a VERY simple way to find out, at least for yourself:

    Take a holiday from Results! with sugar, then next time you try it, do everything the same as you are now but with 80g less carb than you're currently consuming - ie with a sugar-free version.

    Many of us would have been far more interested in this than in the one with half a cup of sugar in a single dose.

    By the way, Chris - you used this in a caloric deficit didn't you? While you were dropping 20 lbs of fat in a month?

    I used it then and I am using it now.


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