The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness
Latest Article

The Five Biggest Contradictions in Fitness

It’s no secret that when people contradict themselves, it has the effect of making the flaws in their actions or statements seem glaringly obvious. But what about when WE ourselves get caught contradicting ourselves by someone else?

By: Nick Tumminello Added: January 6th, 2014
More Recent Articles
Contrast Training for Size
By: Lee Boyce
An Interview with Marianne Kane of Girls Gone Strong
By: Jordan Syatt
What Supplements Should I be Taking? By: Jay Wainwright
Bench Like a Girl By: Julia Ladewski
Some Thoughts on Building a Big Pull By: Christopher Mason

Facebook Join Facebook Group       Twitter Follow on Twitter       rss Subscribe via RSS
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    165

    Incline Bench Press...Advice please!

    Does anybody have any sources or articles that focus on whether incline bench is even worth doing? I know you can't spot weight lift for chest but I have but on quite a bit of thickness everywhere EXCEPT the upper section of my pecs.

    Any advice on how to improve that section? Or is it just genetics or i still haven't bulked up enough? (i've gone from 154-196lbs) Or just keep lifting heavy and hope the upper section will fill in finally?

  2.    Support Wannabebig and use AtLarge Nutrition Supplements!


  3. #2
    Banned bjohnso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati Ohio
    Posts
    2,196
    Just keep lifting heavy. Genetics are a bitch, we all have our weak points.

  4. #3
    Ich bin Legende. Torrok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    672
    you do em with dumbells? that seems to work better for my chest than a bar, which hits delts hard
    Green Tea
    17ys -175lbs
    Squat: 300
    Bench: 200
    Deadlift: 360
    Clean: 235

  5. #4
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Yeongsan. South Korea
    Posts
    5,907
    Quote Originally Posted by scumbag View Post
    Does anybody have any sources or articles that focus on whether incline bench is even worth doing? I know you can't spot weight lift for chest but I have but on quite a bit of thickness everywhere EXCEPT the upper section of my pecs.

    Any advice on how to improve that section? Or is it just genetics or i still haven't bulked up enough? (i've gone from 154-196lbs) Or just keep lifting heavy and hope the upper section will fill in finally?

    It's simply genetics. Some people have nice full pecs all around and some don't. All you can do is just keep lifting heavy. Despite what some may say there are NO special exercises or equipment that will fill out a lagging body part. The only things are time and persistence (assuming diet, rest and a proper routine are already in place). Even then it may not work (due to genetics) but at least you tried. As the old adage goes..."Better to try and fail then to never have tried at all.."
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 02-17-2008 at 04:25 AM.

  6. #5
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    70
    im still finding it hard to believe that, why is it that doing different exercises for the chest make the chest sore in different places? If I do flat bench and poke the top of my chest the next day, i don't feel anything, but if I do incline and poke the top of my chest the next day, it will be sore, why is that then?

  7. #6
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    21
    Quote Originally Posted by DiViN View Post
    im still finding it hard to believe that, why is it that doing different exercises for the chest make the chest sore in different places? If I do flat bench and poke the top of my chest the next day, i don't feel anything, but if I do incline and poke the top of my chest the next day, it will be sore, why is that then?
    You worked different angles and therefore hit different muscles. A military press is basically all shoulders while flat bench is pecs+shoulders and dips are basically pecs only. Now if you go inbetween those exercises, you hit different muscles and their tie-ins.

    Exrx (dot) net (can't post links yet, argh) is a great place to see what exercises hit what muscles. It lists out the major/minor/support groups hit by the exercise also.

    In your case, the incline bench press works the clavicular head of the pectoralis major. This is your "upper chest" area.

  8. #7
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Yeongsan. South Korea
    Posts
    5,907
    Quote Originally Posted by DiViN View Post
    im still finding it hard to believe that, why is it that doing different exercises for the chest make the chest sore in different places? If I do flat bench and poke the top of my chest the next day, i don't feel anything, but if I do incline and poke the top of my chest the next day, it will be sore, why is that then?
    You stressed the muscle from different angles. And soreness only means that the muscle was put under an unusual stress. It does not mean that growth or strength increases took place. If I were to hit myself in the chest a hundred times, I would be sore...I'm still not going to look like the male equivalent of Dolly Parton. So soreness is irrelevant.

    And the incline press was not developed as a way to work the top of the chest. It was developed as a way to increase the OH press. The theory was that since lifters found that they could bench more than they could OH press, that they could equalize it by (over time) raising the angle of the bench. This theory never came to be realized, because the incline press put the chest in a weaker position and more of the stress onto the shoulders, weaker and smaller bodyparts.
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 02-17-2008 at 06:55 PM.

  9. #8
    Wannabebig Member reisrocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1
    I'd tell you to use your common sense; look at what exercises work those muscles you want to target.. then focus on them until they feel like acid is being injected straight into them.

    Different types of motions will yield totally different types of bodies.. during the summer Olympics, watch the men's judo.. some of them have bodies which are 100% perfectly built, right to the very edges of their muscles.. this gives their chest a very sectioned, geometric look.. now lets not mention their six packs.

    This is because their limbs, and entire body move in every possible ways.

    Different types of motions do lead to different types of bodies... listen to your body, work hard.. and you'll get the exact results you are after.

    As schwartzy said, 1 rep WITH intention is like 10 reps without (referring to internal 'focussing' on the muscles of choice..).
    Last edited by reisrocks; 02-18-2008 at 06:10 AM. Reason: typo

  10. #9
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    3,979
    Quote Originally Posted by reisrocks View Post
    then focus on them until they feel like acid is being injected straight into them.
    This is bad advice.
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
    Are you eating while you are reading this? You should be... --hrdgain81
    Remember, kids, if you type well the Grammar Fairy will leave a quarter under your pillow. The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation

    Well, the Blog's (finally) back (again!): Love and Hope and Sex and Dreams Feel free to stop by and comment.
    Here is my newly-created World of Warcraft Blog: BG's WoW Blog. Once again, feel free to stop by and comment.

  11. #10
    Wannabebig Member reisrocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150 View Post
    This is bad advice.
    can you expand on why this is bad advice?

  12. #11
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    3,979
    ^^

    • It can easily lead to overtraining.
    • If you are lifting until you are feeling the "burn", chances are you are doing too many reps with too light a weight. It becomes cardio at that point, which is catabolic to muscles, rather than anabolic.
    • If you want to get bigger and stronger, eat a lot and lift heavier and heavier weights, not more and more reps.
    • You grow OUTSIDE the gym (with proper diet and plenty of rest), not INSIDE the gym.
    Last edited by BG5150; 02-18-2008 at 06:15 AM.
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
    Are you eating while you are reading this? You should be... --hrdgain81
    Remember, kids, if you type well the Grammar Fairy will leave a quarter under your pillow. The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation

    Well, the Blog's (finally) back (again!): Love and Hope and Sex and Dreams Feel free to stop by and comment.
    Here is my newly-created World of Warcraft Blog: BG's WoW Blog. Once again, feel free to stop by and comment.

  13. #12
    Wannabebig Member reisrocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1
    good thing there's people here to put threads straight.

  14. #13
    Wannabebig Member reisrocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150 View Post
    ^^

    • It can easily lead to overtraining.
    • If you are lifting until you are feeling the "burn", chances are you are doing too many reps with too light a weight. It becomes cardio at that point, which is catabolic to muscles, rather than anabolic.
    • If you want to get bigger and stronger, eat a lot and lift heavier and heavier weights, not more and more reps.
    • You grow OUTSIDE the gym (with proper diet and plenty of rest), not INSIDE the gym.
    and having said that (i'm not arguing here, just interested in finding out more).

    It becomes cardio at that point, which is catabolic to muscles, rather than anabolic.
    is it that simple?

    From observation.. when i was a kid I used to skate up a hill every morning on my way to school... and feel this intense burn... within a couple of months I'd developed big, good looking, and very well defined lower back muscles..

    how could this be if this type of exercise is catabolic?

    also in Owen McKibbin's men's health book (cover model workout) he recommends working the abs until their burn.. surely he would not be the spokesperson for men's health if he were spreading bad advice?!

  15. #14
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    3,979
    ^^ I'm not sure why that was. But using that reasoning, all marathon runners should have huge legs.
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
    Are you eating while you are reading this? You should be... --hrdgain81
    Remember, kids, if you type well the Grammar Fairy will leave a quarter under your pillow. The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation

    Well, the Blog's (finally) back (again!): Love and Hope and Sex and Dreams Feel free to stop by and comment.
    Here is my newly-created World of Warcraft Blog: BG's WoW Blog. Once again, feel free to stop by and comment.

  16. #15
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    70
    there is a difference between a 5 minute skate and a 5 hour run... I also know many people who've got decently built legs by riding to varsity a lot.

    "And soreness only means that the muscle was put under an unusual stress. It does not mean that growth or strength increases took place. If I were to hit myself in the chest a hundred times, I would be sore...I'm still not going to look like the male equivalent of Dolly Parton. So soreness is irrelevant."

    I thought you would bring this up and I am dissapointed. This is not an argument about soreness determining how well you grow. You will usually be sore if you work a muscle, and you will not be sore if you don't, therefore the top of my chest being sore means I've worked it, and the top of my chest not being sore means I havn't.

    Stew mentioned something important which nobody seems to acknowledge?

    "In your case, the incline bench press works the clavicular head of the pectoralis major. This is your "upper chest" area."

    You obviously don't agree songsang, as you don't believe you can build an "upper chest", only a chest, so how do you respond to stew's point?
    Last edited by DiViN; 02-18-2008 at 02:25 PM.

  17. #16
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    3,979
    You will usually be sore if you work a muscle, and you will not be sore if you don't, therefore the top of my chest being sore means I've worked it, and the top of my chest not being sore means I havn't.
    That may be your own personal experience, but DOMS (the soreness) affects different people in different ways.

    I (read: me, and me alone) usually get DOMS when I drastically change the weight or rep scheme for a particular lift. But during normal progression, I do not. Or if I work a muscle at a different angle, I get it. For instance, flyes. I rarely do them, but on the occasion that I do, I'm sore for a few days.

    But I really beg to differ if you are saying after throwing up a PR in bench and I'm not sore the next day that I haven't worked the muscles.
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
    Are you eating while you are reading this? You should be... --hrdgain81
    Remember, kids, if you type well the Grammar Fairy will leave a quarter under your pillow. The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation

    Well, the Blog's (finally) back (again!): Love and Hope and Sex and Dreams Feel free to stop by and comment.
    Here is my newly-created World of Warcraft Blog: BG's WoW Blog. Once again, feel free to stop by and comment.

  18. #17
    Bodybuilding Mythbuster
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Yeongsan. South Korea
    Posts
    5,907
    Quote Originally Posted by DiViN View Post
    there is a difference between a 5 minute skate and a 5 hour run... I also know many people who've got decently built legs by riding to varsity a lot.

    "And soreness only means that the muscle was put under an unusual stress. It does not mean that growth or strength increases took place. If I were to hit myself in the chest a hundred times, I would be sore...I'm still not going to look like the male equivalent of Dolly Parton. So soreness is irrelevant."

    I thought you would bring this up and I am dissapointed.

    If you thought I would bring this up why are you disappointed?

    This is not an argument about soreness determining how well you grow.

    No one said it was. I was pointing out WHY that even mentioning soreness was irrelevant.

    You will usually be sore if you work a muscle, and you will not be sore if you don't,

    Stop right there, that is incorrect. I can work a muscle without being sore and still grow...I've done it. So have other people.

    therefore the top of my chest being sore means I've worked it, and the top of my chest not being sore means I havn't.

    They mean no such thing. The first one ONLY means you have put the muscles under a stress to which they are not accustomed to. This can be accomplished by using different angles, different equipment, etc... It can even be accomplished WITHOUT working out.

    Stew mentioned something important which nobody seems to acknowledge?

    "In your case, the incline bench press works the clavicular head of the pectoralis major. This is your "upper chest" area."

    The incline bench press works the ENTIRE chest, not just the clavicular head. You can not isolate that under load. You obviously have read some of my posts (given your comments about what you thought I would bring up and my belief) so why didn't you read the reasoning behind them?

    You obviously don't agree songsang, as you don't believe you can build an "upper chest", only a chest, so how do you respond to stew's point?
    He never said that the incline press JUST worked the clavicular head. It works the entire muscle including the clavicular head. Now I and many other lifters (Home Yield, Belial, Paul Stagg to list a few) have said this over and over again. We have provided links, reasoning and solid arguments...yet every few months this topic (or a variation of it) comes up with mind-numbing regularity. I really don't feel like re-inventing the wheel, so if you wish for more proof I will be happy to provide you with a few links.

    Here are a couple to get you started.

    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...ighlight=chest

    http://www.wannabebigforums.com/show...ighlight=chest
    Last edited by Songsangnim; 02-18-2008 at 09:53 PM.

  19. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    232
    Incline press was a very weak point for me, but after i started doing military presses and getting my shoulders stronger it started going up. I was incline pressing like 155 x5 in september ( which is weak since my flat bench was in the 250s at the time) and last week I hit 235 twice. Train your shoulders and triceps and keep at it. Everything comes with time.
    Last edited by left hook; 02-18-2008 at 09:37 PM.
    January 07-164 pounds
    *Bulking*
    Deccember 07 - 225 pounds

    June 08 - 205
    *Currently Cutting*
    Goal-190

    November 08-238 pounds
    *Bulking till January 1st*

  20. #19
    Wannabebig Member reisrocks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by BG5150 View Post
    ^^

    • It can easily lead to overtraining.
    "Good bodybuilders have the same mind... [...] you look in the mirror and you say: l need more deltoids, more shoulders, so you get the proportions right. So what you do is you exercise... and put those deltoids on."

    schwarzenegger in 'Pumping Iron'

  21. #20
    Senior Member caseymajor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    0
    Here is my way of looking at your lagging upper chest. When everyone first starts out working out what do they care about most? How much you bench, squat, shoulder press ect. so then you see everyone start out on flat bench and not incline bench, thats why I think so many people have not devoloped there upper chest as well as there middle and lower pecs. Try starting out with Incline Press DB/or Barbell and hit incline flys too if you do them. Hope this helps brother

  22. #21
    Grammar Nazi BG5150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    3,979
    Quote Originally Posted by reisrocks View Post
    schwarzenegger in 'Pumping Iron'
    Arnie was also 'pumping' with copious amounts of pharmacologicals
    There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
    Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left.
    Are you eating while you are reading this? You should be... --hrdgain81
    Remember, kids, if you type well the Grammar Fairy will leave a quarter under your pillow. The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation

    Well, the Blog's (finally) back (again!): Love and Hope and Sex and Dreams Feel free to stop by and comment.
    Here is my newly-created World of Warcraft Blog: BG's WoW Blog. Once again, feel free to stop by and comment.

  23. #22
    Wannabebig Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    70
    Ok i appreciate those links songsan and I can see this argument is already really old so im just going to step out now. I figure im just going to experiment at gym till I can draw my own conclusions, it's the only way im going to be satisfied.

Similar Threads

  1. Need help getting Bench Press back up
    By Mavidatt in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 09-18-2007, 04:15 AM
  2. Incline Bench Press
    By pipeorgmik in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-16-2004, 10:16 AM
  3. For HIT Jedis Powerlifters and Power Bodybuilders: The Evil Russian Speaks
    By silles in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 01-07-2004, 12:29 PM
  4. Korte's 3x3
    By pittbull7 in forum Powerlifting and Strength Training
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-07-2003, 09:53 PM
  5. Advice, I need a lot of it :-) !!!
    By Frenzy in forum Bodybuilding & Weight Training
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-14-2001, 07:20 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •